What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I'm just curious what types of groups you are getting with your hunting rifles at 100 yards. I was out the other day with my Savage 110 with the Accutrigger in .30-06 and I was only able to get the 5 shot group down to about 1.75". Most of the groups were in the 2" range. I see tests in the gun mags and they are getting MOA groups a lot of times. Makes me think I'm doing something wrong, but I know I'm not.

B=Breathe
R=Relax
A=Aim
S=Squeeze

I'd like to know what you are getting and what you consider unacceptable at 100 yards.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

Everyone on the internet claims to have sub-moa rifles. The vast majority do not. Most rifles shoot 1-2" with factory ammo which is more than acceptable for hunting in most cases. A rifle must consistently shoot sub-moa 5 shot groups for it to be a sub-moa gun. If it does it on occasion, its not a sub-moa gun. Most shooters are not qualified to consistently shoot moa.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I agree that most probably exagerrate a bit with regards to accuracy. I'll also say that most rifles are inherently more accurate than the people who squeeze that triggger. I know what my rifles will do and what they won't. I have a Win Model 94 that will only shoot 5" groups at 100. To me this is terrible, but I did bag a doe at 85 yards with it last year. I'm trying to sell it right now so that I can get something more accurate in the same lever action design, such as a Marlin 336. After many attempts at groups, over 80 shots to date. This rifle is just not a good shooter for me.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I am with Ridge Runner repeatable 1" or better for my main used CF's. Not a requirement for hunting but rather the shooter;). I used to dislike shooting paper but I overcame that fear and have worked hard to become a good paper shooter, I just expect a certain level now. I handload and since do so finding absolute accuracy has been a much easier task, not to mention it forced me to deal with my paper punching and enjoy shooting.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I was doing some work on the farms Saturday, decided to check my rifle...Set up my bench and went out to 250 yards, shot twice, got on the 4-wheeler to check, I had one shot an inch to the left, one an inch to the right and both were one inch low of the center of the bull...I put it up.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I try a lot of rifles. The ones I keep will shoot right at an inch or less for three shots at 100 yards.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I have spme trouble swallowing a lot of the stories that show up on here about out-of-the-box rifles that shoot sub-MOA with factory amminition. Now, I'm not saying ther aren't some out there, but this forum seems to contain almost all of them that were ever made. Yes, some custom manufacturers and even an off-the- shelf brand will claim to guarantee MOA. This, however, is not the case for the everyday Remchester that we hear so much about. If you don't handload, and don't get your 6lb. trigger fixed, those sub-MOA's are mostly listed under "Fiction".

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

*Three quarter* inch at 100 yds using Federal Vital Shoks -- .270 130 grains Nosler Ballistic Tips.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

All of my bolts will shoot an inch or a hair less on the days I can hold my end of the deal up.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

Mine consistantly touch each other at 100yds. Tikka T3 300 win mag hand loads 180gr Nosler CT Failsafes 76 gr IMR 4831 powder.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I used to have a lot of rifles that wouldn't shoot one inch. I don't have them anymore. Its true, many if not most bolt guns will not shoot one inch from the box without trigger work and experimenting with loads. I try a rifles, Rework the trigger, play with some loads and if the potential is not there, its gone. I won't put much extra money in a rifle. If it won't shoot pretty darn good from the box with good factory loads, it gone. I have a Browning A-bolt stalker that has shot every factory and hand load that I have tried in it into one inch or less. I have the trigger set to about three lbs and it does it every time out. The Remington 700 rifles I have had will usually shoot one inch with the trigger done and shooting Nosler BT's and Sierra Pro-Hunters.

I am talking three shot groups off sand bags under fair to good conditions. I don't give a hang if a hunting rifle won't shoot five shot one inch groups, I seldom if ever shoot more than two shots at an animal, if I have not hit it with two then I probably won't hit it with four or five either;). Its where that rifle puts the first shot every time that counts.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I think 1.5" is reasonable for a random factory load. 2" isfair-poor from a modern bolt gun IMO. I could take that from my muzzleloaders but not my centerfires. Mostly I think the shooters have a hard time holding the gun still enough to make their gun shoot 1" groups. Let's say it shot 1/2" from a solid concrete bench rest and an expert shooter...not exactly a lot of room to play with to get those 1" groups.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

Well PA...Look at my post, never mentioned that it was a stock factory gun...As long as you are curious...
It's a Ruger M-77 in .243...Action has been bedded, barrel floated, trigger honed, polished and adjusted to a crisp
2 1/2 pounds...And the barrel, it's a Shilen.....:D

Frankly, I have found it fairly easy to get Remington 700s to shoot a 1 1/2 inch group out of the box with good factory ammo fairly easily, after a good trigger adjustment and maybe a little barrel tuning...At least half of being able to make a rifle group is have a good bench and rest...I have seen many guys shoot a 3 inch group and let me try their gun and I would shoot 2 shots within a half inch of each other...Some guys just can't shoot that well.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

All of my bolt guns will put handloads under 1" real easy, as long as I do my part. I also shoot 3 shot groups, most the time you can cover them with a quarter real easily, if I am really working hard at shooting good groups, you can throw a nickel over alot of 'em and sometimes a dime. I've got loads worked up for all my guns that will shoot extremely well, so I'm not too interested in shooting groups anymore. I go an practice from my bipods, or shooting over my packs at 200, 300, 400 yards.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

No joke, last week I shot clover leaves @ 100 yards with my (out of the box) Remington 700 XCR in .30-06. Best part about it was that I was using $11.00 a box Remington Powershock ammo in 150 gr. No extra work was done except for breaking in the barrel using instructions from Remington. Trigger is at 4 lbs. from the factory.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

Well, guys, I took it from the original post that the gentleman was shooting a stock gun with factory ammo. I still stand by my statement. I also realize that most of us on here do our own handloading and tuning, be that triggers and/or bedding and custom barrels. I also realize that those of us who are really concerned with wringing as much accuracy as we can from our guns have, for the most part, probably turned into decent benchrest shots. Some of the posts plainly show handworked ammo. Some of the posts concede that factory MOA guns aren't the common, run of the mill off the rack guns. I do agree, and always have, that 1 1/2" groups are more the norm for them. Just because a gun shoots a 1" group occasionally does not make it a MOA gun, does it? It's gotta do it regularly, in my mind.
Anyhow, Thaaaats my story, and I'm stttickkin' tooo it!!

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

One thing that we all are forgetting here when the companies are claiming MOS or sub MOA guns, they are shooting expansive MATCH ammo, not your factory hunting loads. That ammo is suppossed to shoot the same every time you squeeze the trigger.
Usually, when we read the advertisements for these guns it says using premium ammo. And from what I see and read, it is usually black hills anymore.
i have to agree with the statment that most guns that make these claims, will shoot better than the average joe will be able to shoot them. There are lots of guys out there (NOT EVERYBODY) whose idea of shooting is once or twice to the range over the non hunting months to shoot the huntingload that they worked up 5 years ago, and then 1-2 times right beofr ethe hunting trip. AND, there are the guys that shoot almost weekly, until the hunting trip, and then mightbe every 2 weeks or so. It takes that kind of practice to shoot those sub MOA groups nearly everytie you go to the range. But that is just my opinion.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I have a custom 6.5-284 that shoots sub 1/2 MOA Fairly regularly but is a true 3/4moa rifle. I have 338 win mag that is basically factory with a bedding job and trigger adjustment that shoots on Avg 1 MOA. My favorite rifle is a Browning ABolt in 280 that have nothing done to it and it shoots between 1-1.5 MOA. I have several sub 1/2 moa varmint rifles.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

My model 760 .30-06 shot right at MOA with premium ammo, but I had to switch to managed-recoil (doctor's order) to keep shoting it. Now it shoots 1/2 over MOA if I hold up my end of the deal. That's OK with me since I'll rareley get a shot over 100 where I hunt. I have a Saiga .223 that shot 3" with silver bear ammo and shoots 1.5" - 2" with core-locts. It did shoot one group with all the holes touching, but I know it was just luck.

My favorite target shooter is my .22. It is an old Romanian training rifle I got for $40. Really cheap fun.

This is a 40-shot group at 50 yards, open sights:

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

About .5 inch with my varmint set up. About and inch with my 7mm Rem Mag. Both groups should improve once I start hand loading.

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RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

My Sako 75 in 300 Win Mag puts pretty much everything into .75" to 1.5" and that's acceptable hunting accuracy for me. I love the bug hole groups at 100yds or the sub 2" groups at 325yds but it doesn't do that consistently. What it does do consistently is print decent groups at the same POI and it hasn't let me down yet. ;)

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

If you're shooting a light cotoured barrel the normal procedure is to shoot 3 shot groups. Heavier barrels can stand 5 shot groups without opening up the groups. If your first three shots group well then the group opens up on the 4th or 5th shot then you're having barrel heating problems. My Ruger 77 270 shoots handloads into 1" groups after some glass bedding and trigger work. Right out of the box with Remington 130 Core-Lokt's the accuracy was horrible, 3"-4" groups.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

Which rifle are you talking about?? Mine are not all tack-drivers.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I reckon this isn't too shabby for something I threw together a couple of years ago when I was slow in the shop...



load development photos...

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I only have one rifle, .308, and I can usually get the holes to touch at 100. If it shoots over MOA it's me, not the weapon.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I think the guy who said most shooters are not qualified to shoot moa consistently is correct. Also, I'm guessing I'm not in the qualified group. I find it hard to consistently shoot a group of 5 that I'm satisfied I didn't pull just a little bit.

I have found, limited though my shooting ability may be, that my rifles shoot differently with different factory loads. My .25-06 shoots reasonably well with Hornady Custom ammo but poorly with several other kinds of ammo. I can keep my groups under about 1.5" with the Hornady but find that I can't do better than 2.5" or even 3.5" with some other ammo. As I understand it, this is not an indication of the poor quality or variability of this other ammo, but just an instance of a rifle having a particular resonant frequency which agrees with some ammo and not with others. In another .25-06 rifle the Hornady Custom ammo may perform poorly and one of the loads that performs poorly in my rifle may be perfect in another rifle. So go try about 5 different commercial loads in your rifle.

Of course, if you hand load you can use fire-formed brass and tune your load to your rifle. I don't reload, but I've been attracted to this aspect of reloading -- tuning loads to shoot very well in each of my rifles.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

first 5 rounds I ever put through one of my swede mausers. 1st shot I pulled to the left because the trigger was a lot lighter than I expected, the next 4 went into 3/4." Did I mention that this was with iron sights?:D

No I can't duplicate those results- I'm typically a 1.5moa shooter with irons but that is getting worse as my eyesight is getting 'older'

I do have 7 or 8 rifles that will shoot that well ofbetter scoped- a remington .308, a Swedish M41B sniper, and a 1/2 dozen Swiss K31s.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

My Savage 111 / 30-06 shoots more or less at the MOA. The 165 gr bullets are a bit tighter than the 150 gr. All of that is nice but is it really usefull? The question is how well will you be able to shoot from an improvised position (no bench while hunting) when you see the caribou at 200 yds or a deer at 80 yards. I am happy as long as I can get a 5" group at 300 yards on the field with a high probability.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

This is exactly why I love my .22. I can practice my 5 basic positions from both sides without spending a fortune in ammo. I don't even shoot it from the bench. What would be the point? I use it like a practice ball, with my hunting rifles being my game ball.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

BigTiny, that the way to go. Practice with the 22 or even with air rifles and good things will happen.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

How's this for five shots at 100 yards? 6mm/284.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

With my Savage 110 7 mm mag., using a rest on a bench and usinghanded loaded rounds (years of experimentation)the holes will be touching. If they are not it is me not the gun. Under hunting situations I couldn't tell you because they go down after the first trigger pull.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

How many loads and bullet weights have you tried in the rifle?Never judge a rifles accuracy based on only one or two loads.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

On a good day I can keep them with in an inch groups at 100 yds.
Mod. 116 Savage 7mm rem.mag. with factory winchester 150 gr. ballisitic silver tips.. Good enough for me for hunting.
If I shot it more i'm sure I could tighten it up a little more.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

If you can keep your groups under 2" at 100 yards that is plenty good enough. Some people won't accept that though and strive for better. I used to have a Browning A-Bolt that would not shoot any better than 1.5" groups, and those were rare (most groups were 2" or bigger). I shot hundreds of rounds through that rifle to try to get it to shoot, bedded the action, shot tons of different factory ammo, started reloading because of it, and even sent it back to Browning. They sent me the rifle back with a 50yd target with 3 holes in it marked 50 yards. The holes were about an inch apart and they claim that is within factory specs for accuracy.

I sold that rifle that week and became less enamored with Browning. I then found out about Tikka rifles and bought one. They claim 1 MOAaccuracy andthe rifle pretty much does that. My groups are generally around 1" at 100 yards, some are 1.5" and some are 3/4" or less. I'm probably not good enough to shoot sub-MOA even if the rifle does, I'm just a normal hunter like most people here and only shoot 50-100 rounds a year from my rifles. I do reload for it and that helps somewhat with the size of my groups. So long as I'm around 1" at 100 I'm quite satisfied, especially for my abilities.

---edited for typos---

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

300 wsm (3 in a nickel at a 100) 243 (3 in a quarter at 100, still working on this one) 22-250 w/ accu trigger (3 in a quarter at 200) All hand loads and nosler bullets.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

If you want small groups, reload, it's your best tool for tweeking a rifle for accuracy!
The next thing is a solid bench, concrete is preferable!
Ever herd of follow thru? If you don't you'll never shoot your best. Start with an empty rifle, prefrebly with a snap cap although I usually just leave an empty case in the chamber. Take careful aim and practice squeezing off a shot and try to not let the cross hairs move off target.
This is great practice for trigger control as well as breath control. It will also help brake the habbit of brakeing your form as you anticipate the trigger break, it also helps to pass time while your barrel cools.
Never allow your rifle to beat
you up, use a recoil shild of some sort and limit your live fire sessions!
And yes I have a few that will do better than moa, thay have one thing in common (Savage) Glenn

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I shoot a Weatherby Vanguard 30-06 with everything left factory so far. With a clean non-overheated barrel it shoots 1.5" groups reliablly at 100 yards. Plenty good for me, 'cause I only use it for Whitetails.

RE: What group size is your rifle shooting?
 

I bought a Kimber montana in 270 wsm last year that would not shoot better than 3 inch groups no matter what ammo I used. I know it was not me cause I shot my wifes Sauer202 back to back with my kimber and shot less than 1 inch with her rifle. I tried to contact Kimber but got nothing so I sent myKimber to Hill Country Rifle to be accurized. Should be getting it back in a couple of weaks and I can not wait.