300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

My boss and I are going on a Brown Bear hunt in Alaska in about six weeks. I was planning on using my Remington 700 XCR 300 Ultra Mag on the hunt. However, I talked with our guide this past weekend and he says it is not enough gun for Brown Bear. I have always believed in listening to your guide, but I really thought I had enough horsepower. What does everyone else think?

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

200gr TSX with a 300ultra would rip thru any bear in my opinion. or 200gr partition.

I would rather have a 338 win mag with 220gr.

Shocked he said 300ultra not enough.

I have never killed a brown bear, but kinda shocked.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

He actually said that the minimum he would suggest was a 338 Win Mag. I told him that the 300 Ultra Mag has more kinetic energy that a 338 Win Mag and he said he knew that. However, he said the lighter bullet out of the Ultra Mag worried him. He prefers a heavier bullet to break down the shoulder bone.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I would prefer a 338 too. But with the right bullet like a TBBC, or barnes, I bet a bear won't know the difference. And a barnes would rip thru a shoulder too I suspect. Did he say he has seen the 300RUM fail on bear. I understand his concern as he is the one in the front doing the tracking after the shot.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Time to step up to the 338 Ultra Mag then :D

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I'm also surprised the guide said that. Just load heavy and premium, 200gr or 220grNosler Partitions or Barnes, and the job will be done. Both of the bullets are known for their toughness, and penetration. The 200gr bulletshave a SD that's similar to 250gr bullets out of a 338.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Its been done countless times with the 30-06 so the guide seems sort of out in left field on this one. However If I can't do it with the 30-06 then I am going to the 375 H&H or 375 Ruger. The 416 Rem Mag would do the job as will the 45-70. With the 30-06 to 300 RUM the 200 grain Partition or TSX would be my choice. The old 30-40 Krag with 220 grain bullets worked well for me and its quite a bit shy of the 300 Mags. Real close shots with very high velocity rounds can be a problem if large bones get in the way.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I appreciate the feedback. I agree with most of your comments. I have a 375 H & H Mag but it is in a Thompson Encore single shot. He didn't like that idea either due to it being a single shot. I also agree that a 30-06 will do the job with proper bullet placement as well as several other calibers that the guide seems to question. However, as someone said, he is the one in front if you have to track a wounded bear. Therefore, I willretrieve my Ruger 338 Win Mag from my son and use 250 Gr Nosler Partitions. I still believe the 300 Ultra Mag would do the job. As for the 338 Ultra Mag, I have wanted one for quite awhile, but until now didn't think there was anything I could use it on that couldn't be taken with the 300 Ultra Mag. Thanks again for the comments.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I would not hesitate to use my 300ultramag shooting the 180gr tsx.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Now, don't get me wrong, I would always take advice from my guide. But, I have read hunting stories where the hunter has harvested brown bear with a .300 ultra mag. I have also read stories where it takes multiple shots to take down a brown bear with a .375 H&H. If I were you, I think I would upgrade...

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Non-resident (probably) Brown bear tag,
Guided trip,
We're talking $15,000 or so for the trip and you're not past the tip or the taxidermy.

Spring for a synthetic and stainless 375 H&H and go get your bear with your guide's blessing and don't look back.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Have long said for the big bears personally .338wm would be the min I'd consider, though I'd likely anty up to the likes of a 375 H&H if I was booking such a hunt. All saidI truly believe the 300 Ultracoupled with a Barnes TSX would work on a big brown. Just something about having more and not needing it is a nicer feeling when the critter bites back!;)

Assuming the 338wm Ruger is as accurate and gives you the same confidence as the RUM, seems like the logical choice but if not I'd take the 300RUM. 6 weeks is doable to gain a feel and find a load with a new rifle but I'd think it is to short to gain the confidence required for the task at hand so I'd be sticking to one of the rifle's you already know/own vs buying.

Good Luck

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

If you like your rum and are comfortable with it take it by all means. There isn't a bear that walks that can't be killed cleanly with the 300 RUM and a premium 180-200gr bullet. I wouldn't think twice about taking the right shot with my 300 win mag with 180partitions or tsx. That being said though I did pass on a nice interior grizzly while carrying my 300 mag last year because I didn't like the hard quatering toward angle. I probably wouldn't have taken that shot even with my 375 H&H but the extra bullet wieght is reassuring.

What kind of hunt is it going to be, boat based or one where you will be doing a lot of hiking, it would depend on the situation which rifle I would take. A hiking hunt would be with the lighter more portable rifle, and boat based would be less critical of rifle weight.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Time for someone here to get the new Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger to try out.....:D

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

It's obvious he's worried about bullet failure!!

Use 200 or 220 NP's and get good with that load/rifle and you will be just fine... TSX's may also be good, but i don't have any experience with them on big bears, like i do with NP's...

If i had your rifle and liked it and "was use to it", i'd not buy something new and start over now....

DM

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

That sounds like a good gun for you to try Rammer.:D

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I'm not sure my shoulder could handle one after I tore my rotator cuff last year.....I'd be willing to try though if someone gave me one tho ;)

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I looked at one at Scheels in Fargo. Nice little gun to carry but try as I might, I couldn't think of anything I needed it for.I know my shoulder wouldn't handle many rounds through it.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

You may want to check out what Weatherby has to offer. While it is hard for me to imagine that there is a North American game animal that the .300 WBY Mag can't kill, if your guide insists on a bullet diameter of greater than 30 caliber, the .340 WBY Mag greatly out performs that .338 Win Mag and the .378 WBY Mag has far more muzzle energy than the .375 H&H Mag.

Caldoc

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Rammer,I tore my rotator cuff last year May 10thtoo. Had surgery done. Theropy was a killer the first time after surgery. I think the Ruger 375 would of been alot nicer them the theropist.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

340 weatherby, yikes!!! I spose there around $120 a box these days.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Now I have never hunted bears, but I know one thing for certain. Listen to your guide. Sure, we have all read the articles of that one hunt that somebody had, and the .300 was good. And we have seen the TV programs too. What is not being taken into consideration here is that you guide knows where he is taking you, and I am pretty sure it is not the same place you read about, or saw on TV. Might be close, but still different. It is quite possible, if he is a really good guide, that he has his "I keep this place secret spot" where he sees lots of BIG bears. He has to figure, if he can put you on a bigger than normal bear, then, his tip, and referrals will be better.
Bears, just like every other critter are going to vary by size quiet a bit based on where they live. Their diet may have some similarities it will make a difference. Even just 10-15 miles down the road. Higher elevation better supply of fish...etc.
Take the advice of the guide on this one. He knows what is out in "HIS" part of the woods.
And, for what it's worth.... I am jealous as hell that you get to hunt up there.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Trust me, 15 miles down the coast isn't make any difference to a brown bear... He may just wonder down there just to see if it's still there...

Put that 300 in my hands loaded with 200NP's and i don't give a dam how big a bear comes by, he will be anchored!! And yes i have flattened more than one brown bear...

DM

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Put that 300 in my hands loaded with 200NP's and i don't give a dam how big a bear comes by, he will be anchored!! And yes i have flattened more than one brown bear...

DM
[/quote]

I believe you, but I consider it rude to ignore what your guide has asked you to do. If the bear charges you he wants to ensure that the bear will be stopped in its tracks. Plus, I consider it arrogant to come into a professional's work place and act like you know more than they do. Just follow what your guide says and you won't be sorry.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Or find a guide who agrees that the .300 RUMwill do as much or more to a bear than a .338 WM... ;)

I seem to recall an oil change being done on my Mustang a couple years ago. The "professional" mechanic (complete with ASE certificates on his wall) had his wrench on the oil pan drainplug, and was pulling and pulling on the wrench, but couldn't get drain plug loose... I had to point out to the "professional" that he was trying to turn it the wrong way... I guess maybe I'm a bit too arrogant...

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

.338-.378 Weatherby and go get yourself a bear. ;)

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I've never hunted big bears before, so I'm not exactly the utmost authority, but, personally, I'd think a 300 RUM would take down pretty much anything on our continent.

However, if the guide says he prefers a bigger bore, I think that's a perfect reason to go out and get a 375 Ruger.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Ask that same guide, what he prefers.... A guy with a "properly loaded" 300 mag. that he's been hunting with and shooting for a few years, or a guy with a new "higher recoiling" rifle he's not use to...

DM

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

show up wiht a 470 nitro u will be good ;)i got family in kodiak and they tell me 300's are a minuin locals use them but dont recomend them for out ofstate hunters me if i had the funds for a ideal trip and rifle 375 ultra distance and power not saying u have 2 have that i would go wiht a 300 loaded wiht right bullets but at least a 338 would be nicer

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I've never been on a guided hunt, but wouldn't the guide have a large magnum backup gun? Would a guide back down on his minimum caliber restrictions if you held your ground and brought the 300 RUM, or would he cancel the hunt? Just thinkin' outloud because I don't pretend to know the answers.

I do know if I was a guide taking hunters with varying skill levels, I'd damn sure have something to stop that bear. But I don't even go to the 7-11 without packin".:D

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

just so everyody knows here, I am not trying to step on anybody's toes. I know I am not the expert. I am just gonna toss out a couple of things for jdbowhunter to think about.

I Know what you mean that the 15miles isn't really going to make a real difference. But what i did say was that what you read about, or saw on TV, may have been a different part of Alaska. However, from one side of the mountain to the other, you may find a difference. All I am saying is that your guide KNOWS what is in his backyard. you said it yourself this was your first hunt there. I wonder how many times he has been out there? I wonder if he has seen more than one person come in too light with their caliber?
Yeah, I know, there are lots of you that have killed bears with a .300 of one type or another. And those lot of you may just have a little more experience.
Somebody here made reference to the oil change guy, and sure, might be an OK comparrison. But I would think, that a guide for bears that was as incompetant asthe oil changeguy would either have gotten himself hurt/killed, or wouldn't have any referrals to hunt with him.

Luckdog, you make a good point too, the guide should have something with some punch behind it for back up. But do you want to be the guy that the guide killed your bear for you, cause you wounded it using something lighter than he told you to bring. And especially if you have access to something a little bigger. I think he said his son had HIS .338 of some sort that he could take.

Sorry guys, just playing the devils advocate here. If I am way off the mark, I guess I will learn something. These are just my thoughts.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Don't say you're sorry for posting your opinion, that's what we all do! I would agree with you, but you got to remember as much as I like my 300 RUM, they were killingbig bears with a lot less for centurys. My opinion is, this guide is a little mis-guided. The 300 ultra mag should be plenty! If I were going on a guided hunt, I would do as my guide requested (even if I disagreed)or hire another guide.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

No worries here. I would agree in that I think a 300 would be enough. Though, when I bought my last rifle, I chose the .338 LM just to be sure that I have all game covered.

The guide might be erring in the side of caution for whatever reason that might be. No doubt he has his reason. But if you think you can get it done with the .300 and you can hit that vital spot to drop a bear, then by all means take it with you. He is most likely just making his recomendations to give the average hunter a little something extra as a caution.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Just how much experience does this guide have ?...

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Lord how did we ever kill animals before high powered rifles existed? Simply amazes me at the amount of power people think they need to kill an animal these days.

Paul

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Listen dude, these bears can get big...Show some respect for these animals your hunting dangerous game..
I'd stick with the .375H&H...
Granted the .300 Ultra has power and energy, but these bears can and do take punishment reguarless of a great perfect shot..
These animals can and do cover 100yrds fast 6than you can get your gun up and a accurate shot off...
And personally if I was a guide, and I suggestedto someone bring something bigger I'd be more than pissed if I had to clamber throughthick aldersalong a load rushing river with lots of other bears
in the vicinity looking for a wounded bear alll on the countthat theclient didn't listen..

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I can only hark back to what Jack O'Connor said about the .300 Weatherby for such bears. He said, "the .300 Weatherby kills brown bear about like the 220 Swift kills jackrabbits", or words to that effect. Of course, we all know Jack's wife stepped up to the .30/'06 from her favorite7X57mm when it came time for her to shoot an elephant, despite the fact that W.D.M. Bell killed over 800 tembos with a 7X57mm....

I once lived in Fairbanks, AK. There was a doctor's wife living there at the time (pre-Endangered Species Act), who used to kill Polar bears with a .270 Winchester using 150-grain Nosler Partition bullets. And, early in the 20th century, a world's record brown bear at that time (estimated live weight over1600 pounds), was killed with a Winchester M95 in .30/40 Krag caliber using 220-grain bullets. And now, the .300 Rem. Ultra is not enough gun for brown bear?? Give me a break!

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Well, if he "can't" hit the vital spot, it doesn't much matter what he's carrying, now does it?

I've seen a bigbrown shot several times with a 378 Wby. that lived a couple weeks and was crow bait by then.

You guys make it sound like "if" you have a 375 H&H you have a dead bear, and if you have a 300 mag. you have a bear wounder???

The key to useing a 7 mag. or 300 mag. is to use "proper bullets"!!!! Many guides don't know a lot about bullets, so bigger is better in their mind. I owned and ran a gunshop in Alaska for many years, so i know something about what goes on there...

Did you know that a 7mm Rem. Mag. loaded with 175NP's will out penetrate 375 H&H loaded with 270 grainers???

To break a bear down properly, you need a bullet that expands well, yet still will penetrate deeeeeeeply!

Many guides like to see heart/lung shots because they figure they can and will stop a chatge if needed... They have no problem putting a second shot into the animial, and because you fired the first shot, your suposeto be happy...

Personally, i bust them down on the spot, and end the problem right there... I get close, and do the job right!

DM

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I never once said that a professional can't be wrong, but these guides are trained and do this for a living. I fail to see the correlation between a guy messing up on your oil change and a guide telling you to bring a bigger rifle?? Sure professionals make mistakes, but this one mistake could cost you your life, or the guides. Why would you go for a lower powered rifle against his suggestion? Anyways, to prove my point go to youtube and type in grizzly hunt and cabelas and you will see where a guy shot a brown bear and another bear charges him. The hunter shoots the charging bear. Now, imagine having a lower powered rifle in that scenario and getting injured or killed.

As to the guy who said would I rather have someone with a higher powered rifle who has only shot it a few times versus his regular gun. Well, it is your own fault if you don't practice enough with a new gun, especially hunting brown bears.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Seeing as how "i personally" haveflattened more than one brown bear with a smallercartridge than a 300 UM, and i've also seen several moreharvested with a smaller cartridges than a 300 UM, your going to have to show me some solid "proof" that it's a "mistake" in the first place!

Please post your "proof" so i can look it over, as my "experience" shows me otherwise...

DM