Misdirected opinion here:

So i read back through the thread here. I'll say it, I may have directed some of my arguement at the wrong person. For that I apologize. I still feel that all of it is valid, but just mistakenly directly in the wrong direction.
I do feel that you need the bells and whistles.Maybe not all of them. A bipod you don't really need, but it can sure make things nice. A scope, Pretty generallyaccepted as the way to do things. Sure,there are guys that don'tuse them, but theresure seem to be alot more that do. Slings, some like them, some don't. I don't own one.Muzzle brakes well, when your gun is dual use, you just can't afford toget beat up by your gun. You have to be totally comfortable with it in aTactical situation. Anybody who doesn't take advantage ofany of theseto make sure you make the BEST most ACCURATE shot is a fool.
And the manhood thing. Choosing to shoot with a Brake makes no difference. but whatever.

To everybody, you might agree or disagree with the arguements made here. that's a good thing. because if nothing else, it makes you think about things and maybe look from another persepctive.

[/quote]
It isn't my fault that you cannot shoot hard recoiling rifles without aid
[/quote]

I just got a pm from old beartooth resorting to name calling and attacking my manhood! What a joke. I'm a sissy and not a man because I have amuzzle brake and a recoil pad?At least make some kind of statement thats worth something. I'm not gonna get into a name calling contest.

Yes, i can shoot large caliber guns with accuracy. No, i usually do not; since i seldom hunt with my .375 or 450 Alaskans. So they sit in the safe gathering dust. One of my.375 Alaskans is a Siamese Mauser that weighs just over seven pounds. It kicks about as hard as any gun out there, it is also very accurate.

If you are going to shoot heavy recoiling guns and have your own range, it is a good idea to get a stand up shooting bench.The makers of double rifles use stand up shooting bencheswhen regulatingthe barrels of their guns.

It was early in the morning, he needs his sleep.

"I will admit that I must force myself to squeeze the trigger and that the temptation to jerk it is always there!"

Yes, it is!!

It isn't my fault that you cannot shoot hard recoiling rifles without aid
[/quote]

I just got a pm from old beartooth resoting to name calling and attacking my manhood! What a joke. I'm a sissy and not a man because I have amuzzle brake and a recoil pad?At least make some kind of statement thats worth something. I'm not gonna get into a name calling contest.
[/quote]

It is much better to have a muzzle brake and a good recoil pad than to do poor shooting! There are way too many people running around who can't shoot what they are carrying, and end up having game run off to die and be wasted. A big, fast bullet does NOT compensate for poor bullet placement.

I shoot a 300 WBY and my three shot groups are consistently between .5 and .8 of an inch. Trick is, I don't shoot twenty rounds when I go out. Usually, nine at the most. I guess it helps that I'm pretty solid (6'5", and 295 lbs) so I'm better padded than most.

TO eldequello:

Thanks, Finally somebody else that can understand the logic of usint the muzzle break. If you can reduce the recoil, you can shoot it better. If you can shoot it better, good shot placement comes with it.

There is simply no way to fire any gun with more recoil than a 30-06 accurately without resorting to a brake.Below is as good as I can shoot my unbraked 300ultramag at 100 yards with full power hunting loads.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d128/stubblejumper11/300ultramaggroups.jpg

Just something that I posted on another thread. I know that there are some people that doubt that this is an easy shooting gun. Here are some excerpts from somebody else, and some ballistic data.


Mine, with scope, and rings, just over 14 lbs. I know, that is a bit heave to lug around, but still doable. And every bit worth it when it comes time to shoot. I have provided lots of info from OTHER SOURCES than just myself below. Seems there are a few people who have their doubts. I have one of these, and personally, I love it. Heavier than most hunting rifles, but that is something that I am willing to accept.








Here are the Specs from the Factory, right from their Web site.





MODEL:
AR-30M

CALIBER:
..300 WIN MAG, .308 WIN, .338 LAPUA

RECEIVER FORM:
MODIFIED OCTAGONAL FORM,


DRILLED AND SLOTTED FOR SCOPE RAIL

BOLT:
DUAL FRONT LOCKING LUG

BARREL:
26" CHROME MOLY, 6 GROOVE RH 1:10 INCH TWIST

MUZZLE DEVICE:
MULTIFLUTE RECOIL CHECK

STOCK:
3 SECTION: EXTRUDED FOREND, MACHINED GRIP


WITH VERTICAL GRIP, FORGED AND MACHINED


REMOVABLE BUTTSTOCK

FINISH:
MANGANESE PHOSPHATED STEEL,


HARD ANODIZED ALUMINUM

OVERALL LENGTH:
48 INCHES

WEIGHT:
12 POUNDS

COMPLETE WITH:
15 MINUTE SCOPE RAIL, BIPOD ADAPTOR,


OWNERS MANUAL, LIFETIME WARRANTY

Here are some other useful numbers for comparrison against a couplf of other popular calibers.


**the following info was borrowed from
by Jeff Quinn

July 15th, 2004
http://www.gunblast.com/ArmaLite_AR-30.htm

[align=left][/align][align=left]Chronographing the two factory loads at a distance of twelve feet from the muzzle proved that the available ammunition falls within the design parameters of the original military specifications. The Lapua 250 grain load clocked 2927 feet-per-second (fps), and the Black Hills 300 grain load averaged 2778 fps. With the very good ballistic coefficients of these bullets, the long range performance is excellent for dramatic terminal effect out to at least 1500 yards. Out to 1000 yards, the trajectories of the two bullets are pretty close, while the 300 grain Black Hills load has much greater energy at all ranges. Past 100 yards, the 300 grain bullet starts to really show its superiority, and is actually going faster than the 250 grain bullet at that point. Wind drift with the 300 grain bullet is also significantly less at all ranges past 400 yards. At 1500 yards, the 300 grain Match King has over 1230 foot-pounds of energy, while the 250 has only 776 foot-pounds of energy remaining. This is not to disparage the 250 grain load; it is still an awesome long range performer, but the 300 grain bullet is markedly superior out past 1000 yards. With recoil not being a factor in the AR-30, there is no advantage to using the lighter bullet. As can be seen in the following chart, the .308 Winchester and the .300 Winchester Magnum, which are two of the most popular precision long range rifle cartridges, are not even close in retained downrange energy.[/align][align=left]While the length and weight of the AR-30 does make for a large weapon, it carries very well, and the buttstock is easily removed for transport by pulling two retaining screws, if desired. The rifle is easy and comfortable to shoot from the bipod, a bench, or even standing offhand. It is really no heavier than some long range black powder rifles that I have fired.[/align][align=left]Functioning of the AR-30 was perfect. The big cartridges fed easily from the magazine, or just by dropping them singly into the ejection port while firing from the bench. Accuracy testing was done with two different loads; the 250 grain hollowpoint Scenar bullet load from Lapua, and the 300 grain Sierra Match King hollowpoint load from Black Hills. The Lapua ammo uses cases of that make, and the Black Hills ammo uses cases made by Norma of Sweden. Each is excellent brass. Both loads exhibited very good accuracy at 100 yards, shooting into less than five-eighths of an inch in a stout crosswind. No long range paper punching was tried, but I did shoot the rifle extensively at steel silhouettes of mule deer and black bear at distances of four hundred and six hundred yards. Hitting these life-size targets at this range was very easy using the rifle’s bipod.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align]