DANTHEHUNTER

Well I guess its my turn. I have two of them ,one single shot (buffalo classic) and a marlin lever. Please dont listen to the term 100 yard rifle, you can shoot alot farther then that. It will still kill deer at 200 yards and beyond. No itdoesnt have laser beam trajectory, but with practice you can hit way out there. It leaves a gaping hole that you can eat the meat all the way to the hole. And if you don't reload the buffalo bore and garrett rounds are the most powerful rounds you can but for them.405 grain bullet@ 2000fps is no slouch. Check out there web sites and read for yourself. There is a reason it is still available ---- it works.150 years and counting!!! Wonder what happened to the buffalo it was 45/70.But still there are hunters who think it wont kill a deer, elk or moose !!!

ipscshooter

Nobody here has saidthe 45-70won't kill deer, elk or moose. Obviously, it will. But, it is primarily a 100-150 yard deer rifle. It will kill them at 200 yards, but, with a 100 yard zero, the 405 grain Remington factory loads will drop two feet at 200 yards, so, knowing exactly how far you are from the target is really critical. Also, the generally accepted energy level needed for humanely killing a deer is 1000 ft. lbs., which means (again using the Remington charts for their 300 and 405 grain bullets), the 45-70 is done at 200 yards, if you can lob a round into the deer from that far away.

HEAD0001

I am not one who likes to quote charts, but saying the 243 has more energy than the 45-70 is flat wrong. Your factory round 45-70's are lame, because their ammo has to shoot in the Trapdoor Springfield. Using your 1000 ft. lb. rating-the 243 100 grain runs out of energy at just over 400 yards. According to the Remington catalog. Even with a heavy handload your 243 is under 1000 at 500 yards. A 405 grain 45-70 load at 2000 fps(not a max. load), has over 1000 ft lbs. at 600 yards. Where are you guys getting your information.

Truth be known the 45-70 is a far superior cartridge at distances over 400 yards, over ther 243. And please do not use the trajectory excuse. You better know your rifle and trajectory with any firearm over 400 yards. There were alot of Buffalo killed at a long distance with the 45-70. Those guys would have laughed at a 243.

When was the last time you saw a 1000 yard Vernier Caliper sight on a 243???? I have seen alot of comments over the years about a 45-70. Alot of those comments are negative. I have always wondered if those people have owned and shot the 45-70???? Tom.

DANTHEHUNTER

Yes I agree that the remingtons are weak. And like head siad they are for cowboy actions and older rifles. If you look at some others you will find out they are really a killing machine. Would you shoot a cape buffalo with a .243 ? That is where this round is moving to.There is a story from Africa about a hunter shooting thru two cape buffalo with one shot and killing them both, No I have no way of knowing if that is true but it wouldnt surprise me. Try some buffalo bore ammo and you find a new love for that old timer, make sure it is a rifle that can handle it.

eldeguello

The .45/70 is justy fine for deer, and it WON"T damage near as much edible meat as a 270 will. As Elmer Keith used to say, "you can eat right up to the bullet hole".........

eldeguello

Then get yourself one of those Lyman moulds for the 457122 HP 330-grain bullet, cast them up out of wheelweights, and load them with 46 grains of IMR 4064 instead of black powder, (for cleanliness!!) and you will have one very deadly .45/70 load!

ipscshooter

This started out as just a joking post. Trying to be humorous, in that a deer is just as dead either way. One of my first posts said where I got the information. I said I was using Remington factory loads for comparison. I also recognized that the .45-70 might show a lot of improvement with handloads. I hadn't, at that point, heard of the Garrett and Buffalo Bore loads, and I apologize. But, even with those hot loads, sighted in at 100 yards, the factory is saying the bullet drop is two feet at 250 yards. I can't even imagine the drop at 600. 15 feet or more? Also, none of those siteshave ballistics charts. On those 2000 fps loads, how fast is the bullet still moving at 600? I find it a little difficult to believe that one of those fat stubby shaped bullets will only shed 900 feet per second over the course of 600 yards. Not saying it isn't true, but, just doesn't seem logical..300 Win Mags, using bullets with better ballistic coefficients, lose over 1000 fps within 500 yards.

I've never suggested the .243 was a buffalo round, or that I'd use one at those kinds of distances. As for buffalo killed at long distance, yeah, I'd imagine that consisted mostly of launching a round into a herd, knowing you'd hit something. I tend to doubt they were picking out a single buffalo and trying to kill it with a single heart shot.

Hell, I can't even see 1000 yards, at least not without a good scope. Are you telling me you can hit a deer sized target at 1000 yards using a caliper sight? I'd imagine at that distance, the trajectory would drop a bullet through the spine and out the breastbone. Shots like that are a bit ridiculous, evenwith modern magnum rounds, with high-tech boattail bulletsand 24X scopes. I'd think it would just be a squeeze and pray proposition with a round from the 1800's,using a bullet with the ballistic coefficient of a big rockandcaliper sights...

HEAD0001

IPSC you are right about the trajectory. And yes you are right about the 243 probably being a better choice if hunting between 200 and 400 yards for obvious reasons. I will also admit that it takes alot more (100 times)work and shooting to be effective with the 45-70. But to me that is the fun of it.

I still believe the 45-70 is far superior in the woods for "Deer". Especially in a fast handling lever.

As far as 1000 yard shooting is concerned. **LL no I can not shoot mine that far. But at 200 yards, off handed, and with open sights, I will dot your I's. I have been to long distance shoots-600 yards and beyond. And believe me those old boys can shoot. You can find articles on the net about those shoots. Look up those shoots, and you will be amazed.

And yes those big bullets will hold their energy way out there. And yes I also believe that some of those buffalo shooters were hitting what they were aiming at. It is hard to spray and pray with a single shot. Tom.

ipscshooter

Thanks for the replies. You learn a little new every day. I honestly didn't mean any disrespect to the caliber or those who use it in any of the things I've said. I wasn't aware of the commercial availability of the hotter loads for the 45-70. It's probably not something I'll ever add to my collection, but, it is a much more interesting cartridge when you're not just looking at the weaker standard loads.

frizzellr

While I respect your opinion I must disagee. With a 45-70 you are hitting a deer with around 350 grains of bullet and with that much weight you don't need hyper-velocity. With a strong action rifle and handloads or ammo loaded by companies like Garrett and Buffalo Bore you can edge close to some of the factory offerings for the 458 Win Mag. Would you need that for deer, probably not but if bear or other critters that can chomp on you are what you are gunning for then a hot loaded 45-70 will do nicely. Granted your range might be a little more limited than with a modern supermag, but isn't that why it is called hunting instead of shooting?