You just answered your own question. They said that you can never get the moly out of the bore. WHen you can get the same or better performance from a non-coated bullet then what is the benefit to using them? While they may not necessarily hurt your bore, I haven't seen anything that says it's good for it either.

As for your comments about them being mininformed: that is strictly your opinion and you don't do this for a living.

...and you should know from my other posts that I don't spread false information. I was just passing along what I was told. If you don't like well them I'm sorry.

Melly...What ranges will you typically be shooting?? I have used a .243 since 1980...The first 75 deer or so, I used 100gr Remington CoreLokts...About 1995 I started trying different factory loadings to see the difference in wound channels...I would shoot 5-6 deer with each and concentrate on either high shoulder shots (bullet through the shoulder blade) or center lung shots...

I prefer a bullet that will exit on lung shots and on shoulder shots would go through both shoulder blades, didn't care if this bullet exits, as the deer would drop right there...

This is what I found out....

Bullets that amost always exit on lung shots, sometimes on shoulder shots...Hornady 100gr Interlock, Federal Premium 100gr Nosler Partition, Remington 100gr CoreLokt...

Bulets that sometimes exited on lung shots, never on shoulder shots...Federal Classic 100gr SPBT, Federal Premium 100gr Sierra SPBT,
Federal Premium 85gr Sierra HPBT,Winchester 100gr PowerPoint in both the Supreme and Standard loading...

If your shots are up to 200 yards, any of the first group work well...If your shots can be over 200 yards, the Federal Premium 85gr HPBT at 3320 muzzle velocity is a very flat shooting bullet (in my gun I sight it in at 2 1/2 inches high at 100 yards, and its about 3 inches low at 300 yards)...

Another observation...In doing my testing, I didn't lose a deer with any of these rounds, so they will all work...On center lung shots the deer ran less with the second group of bullets (the softer ones) than with the first group...I would say these deer ran 20-50 yards and the first group they would run 40-75 yards, not a big difference, but it was noticable...In addition, all of these bullets would drop a deer, even at close range with a shoulder shot, so they were all "hard enough" to penetrate the shoulder blade and put enough shock on the spine to drop the deer...

You might notice that I didn't try any of the ballistic tips or the new Federal Fusion...For some reason they didn't group well in my gun and I felt the Federal Premium 85gr HPBT had the advantage of opening up quickly that a ballistic tip gives you, but it had a higher velocity...

Hope this helps...Good Luck

Wow. Hawkeye I found different results than you. The core locks were the ones that didnt get exits the most. While the Hornadys and gamekings always exited.
Molly shmally or lubalox or whatever it is, my gun hated them. The winchester ballistic tips that is. So I never even tried them on deer.

I don't doubt it...There are still several variables, its hard for most people to believe, but as you know, you can have 2 different rifles, same caliber and one will shoot the same loading faster than the other...I could hunt with any of the bullets I listed and still kill deer...Hopefully this will give other hunters a starting place... I expect most will do like I do and probably pick the round that gives the best groups...This helps with their confidence when the deer runs off, I always know that I killed the deer, or I wouldn't have taken the shot...That confidence goes a long way in finding the deer...

Just because this person is a "Gunsmith" doesnt make him an xpert on Moly coating. The original question wasnt even about Moly, I figured someone with you indepth knowledge would have known that it was a different coating used on the Winchester Supreme ammo in question.

Having Moly in your barrel is not a bad thing. They've(Shooting Times Mag. Hornady)done a bunch of tests and in some rifles it helped accuracy and barrel life, some it really made no difference but I never read where it hurts a barrel to have Molyin it. The reports are all on the net and easy to find. I would just like to see some facts of why not to use Moly.

Its not that I don't like it but when someone tells me information I like to check it out myself before I just Parrot it along. Especially if it is incorrect. You yourself stated it doesn't hurt you bore so if there is a chance it helps, how can it be bad.

Lastly please don't assume you know or not what I do for a living.

Good for you. I haven't really looked into it. I stay faraway from Winchester ammo.Frankly I don't care as I doubt it is of any benefit asI said above. I wasn't trying to tell anyone it was the Gospel, I was throwing it out there. If you feel so strongly about it start posting these reports so the guy can get the correct information.

Hey everyone, Remember the post I have quoted here. It is from Melly 1972. It was the original post in this thread, and it was a question needing an answer. It did not have anything to do with the different coatings , nor your personal arguments about them. Don't hijack the thread for your own arguments. How about we actually answer the questions people ask.

As Brutal said, grains is a measure of weight, used in shooting as a descriptive measurement of the weight of a bullet. 100 grain, 95 grain, 85 grain, etc...

As far as the type of ammo used, some of it would depend on the maximum shot distance you are expecting. If you are not planning on shooting a deer farther than 100 yards, it would be different than if you planned on taking deer at the maximum effective range of the caliber which is about 300 yards. But overall, I like to shoot the heavier bullets for the .243 , which is 100 grains. A good all around bullet is the remington core-lokt. Otherwise, I would try to stay with a bonded bullet. That is one where the lead center, and the caseing or shell around the bullet are bonded together so they will not separate on impact. That means the bullet retains more weight, thus providing deeper penetration into or through the animal. But someguns shoot better with some bullets than others. Two identical guns will not necessarily shoot the same ammo. with the same accuracy. So the best thing you can do is pick you two or three different brands of ammunition, and see which shoots best in your gun.

As I said earlier , I would try to stay in the 90 to 100 grain bullet weight range.

Hope this helped.

Good luck and good hunting.

I am proud to have you joining the ranks of the hunters. It is truely a wonderful sport.

God Bless

Really? I have always found gamekings to be some of the softest most frangible lead tip bullets out there. The one's I shot deer with performed almost like a ballistic tip out of my 25-06. I almost never got an exit hole and internally it was like a grenade went off. For that reason I switched to Hornady interlocks which I think are just about as good as it gets for a standard lead tip bullet.

Ihaven't used a coreloc on a deer in a long while but back when I did they usually exited and killed deer pretty well. I must have killed a dump truck load of deer with them here in Alabama out of an old remington 30-06 between the ages of 18 and 24. Never had a problem that wasn't due to me making a bad shot. However I am now 41 so it's been a while since I have used one. I have "heard" (so take this with a grain of internet salt) that the ones being produced now have a thinner copper jacket and therefore are not as tough as the older ones. I cannot confirm that however.I have a friend who uses 120 grain corelocs in his 25-06. He killed 3 deer last year with them and did not report any problems to me.

I have personally never liked a ballistic tip of any kind. Too fragile. Most of the wounded and lost deer horror stories that I have been involved with over the past 7 years involved a ballistic tip, poor penetrationand no blood trail. I guess it's the bowhunter in me but I like an exit hole.

i hear all of these horror stories on the internet about ballistic tips. but, i have never seen anyone provide any evidence. i have used ballistic tip bullets for 7 years now. my best and largest bodied deer was taken at 240 yards with a .270 winchester silver ballistic tip. the bullet passed threw 1 shoulder and ended up under the skin on the other side. i did not break or fracture in any way. the deer dropped right in his tracks. that is enough real evidence for me to know that all of this is just talk.

jorkep,

The winchester may be the exception, in the ballistic silver tip line.

I have come to know the reality of what Todd said. I have never seen the likes of deer lost, with very poor blood trails, as I have at two different deer camps, with people useing remington ballistic tips , and loadings with nossler ballistic tips. I have personally seen a bullet completely frag on the shoulder of a 100 pound doe. That is not the best performance, to say the least. That is why I recommended staying with something like the core-lokt or a bonded bullet. I will never shoot the ballistic tip at any game ever again.