How many of you shoot until it drops?
09-28-2006, 01:31 AM
#71
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pine Hill Alabama USA
Posts: 1,280
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
I've been witness tofar too many one shot tracking jobs. The whole time the shooter claiming: "the shotwasperfect." "I watched him go over this rise." "he couldn't have gone more than a hundred yards." A mile later he's not as certain
09-28-2006, 06:34 AM
#72
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
IMHO, Bambi Pop isn't really not muchin the way of big game hunting per this discussion, kinda right in there with the turkeys (big game in some states).
Different rules of engagement, as witnessed by the rallying cry of manyguide on many a continent onfar too many ocassions....
"What are you doing? Reload! Shooooot!
================================================== ==
We're at 11,000 feet, just gained a 1.000 feet, you're tired.
There's the elk but they are leaving. Get into your best field position.That's right, no bench, no blind.
Get settled in best your can. Give it your best first shot and then SHOOT....
Bang. Pause. Stop. Watch. Ponder.
So in yourcondition, breathing like you are,you know right where that bullet went, eh?
Would you stake your life on it? SHOOT!
What, you want to follow him down into that North Slope Dark Timber? SHOOT!
Pack horse can't go into that stuff, if we find him, I'll let YOU carry out the quarters. SHOOT!
For god sakes man, stop admiring your shot, pick up your gun and shoot, he is leaving the country. SHOOT!
OBTW, we saw/heard a hit. If we don't find him. Ethically, your tag is filled.
I know it was a long trip and expensive and a dream of yours and all....
Sure you don't want to back up that first perfect shot of yours?
Different rules of engagement, as witnessed by the rallying cry of manyguide on many a continent onfar too many ocassions....
"What are you doing? Reload! Shooooot!
================================================== ==
We're at 11,000 feet, just gained a 1.000 feet, you're tired.
There's the elk but they are leaving. Get into your best field position.That's right, no bench, no blind.
Get settled in best your can. Give it your best first shot and then SHOOT....
Bang. Pause. Stop. Watch. Ponder.
So in yourcondition, breathing like you are,you know right where that bullet went, eh?
Would you stake your life on it? SHOOT!
What, you want to follow him down into that North Slope Dark Timber? SHOOT!
Pack horse can't go into that stuff, if we find him, I'll let YOU carry out the quarters. SHOOT!
For god sakes man, stop admiring your shot, pick up your gun and shoot, he is leaving the country. SHOOT!
OBTW, we saw/heard a hit. If we don't find him. Ethically, your tag is filled.
I know it was a long trip and expensive and a dream of yours and all....
Sure you don't want to back up that first perfect shot of yours?
09-28-2006, 07:13 AM
#73
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
EKM so true,
In a perfect world without excitement, perfect rest, and loss of oxygen will a hunter make that thread the needle shot? I know the two of us don't see eye to eye on what it calibers it takes to kill elk 100% time. But in respect to this column I would lean towards your bigger bullets. And given some thought on years past on how many clients I've stood behind and watch shoot at game I would honestly have to say they need all the help they can get. Because your comments I have said to hunters. I've actually seen a guy shoot 13 7mm wea. hits on a bull and not one went through the vitals even when we were 30yds away. That was either excitement beyond control or just plain sorry shooting. Hung my head on that one. In the heat of the moment most don't have the calmness to stand and shoot their best shot. And EKM is right you don't aways know where you hit that elk for sure.
Shoot till their dead
For those that don't think they need range time before hunting. KEY WORD lots of ammo. Because that one guy I make all my clients carry at least 20 rds. Sounds crazy huh but how true reality is.
In a perfect world without excitement, perfect rest, and loss of oxygen will a hunter make that thread the needle shot? I know the two of us don't see eye to eye on what it calibers it takes to kill elk 100% time. But in respect to this column I would lean towards your bigger bullets. And given some thought on years past on how many clients I've stood behind and watch shoot at game I would honestly have to say they need all the help they can get. Because your comments I have said to hunters. I've actually seen a guy shoot 13 7mm wea. hits on a bull and not one went through the vitals even when we were 30yds away. That was either excitement beyond control or just plain sorry shooting. Hung my head on that one. In the heat of the moment most don't have the calmness to stand and shoot their best shot. And EKM is right you don't aways know where you hit that elk for sure.
Shoot till their dead
For those that don't think they need range time before hunting. KEY WORD lots of ammo. Because that one guy I make all my clients carry at least 20 rds. Sounds crazy huh but how true reality is.
09-28-2006, 11:30 AM
#75
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 473
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
Here's an interesting statement from an article on terminal ballistics:
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/mechanics.html
From what I've learned from my introductory psychology class, I can say that the endophin release part is true and personally I think it makes sense about the next few shots not having as much of an effect. (Note that it does not say it has no effect, just less of an effect)
For me, where I hunt, it's so thick that I have to make the first shot count because a follow-up shot is quite rare and I have never taken one. However, I do have four more rounds ready to go, if a second or third shot were to present itself.
The first hit is the most important, because endorphins that are released into the body as a result of serious injury cause the constriction of the blood vessels, reduce or eliminate most pain, and condition the body to operate with minimal oxygen in the blood. If the first hit is not immediately lethal, then subsequent hits will often be less effective in quickly dropping the target, even if they are lethal wounds. Few people realize this, but it is well documented. It is the same mechanism which makes a startled or alert deer harder to kill than one which is completely surprised, because fear also triggers the release of endorphins.
From what I've learned from my introductory psychology class, I can say that the endophin release part is true and personally I think it makes sense about the next few shots not having as much of an effect. (Note that it does not say it has no effect, just less of an effect)
For me, where I hunt, it's so thick that I have to make the first shot count because a follow-up shot is quite rare and I have never taken one. However, I do have four more rounds ready to go, if a second or third shot were to present itself.
09-28-2006, 11:37 AM
#76
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
ORIGINAL: Nanook85
Here's an interesting statement from an article on terminal ballistics:
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/mechanics.html
From what I've learned from my introductory psychology class, I can say that the endophin release part is true and personally I think it makes sense about the next few shots not having as much of an effect. (Note that it does not say it has no effect, just less of an effect)
For me, where I hunt, it's so thick that I have to make the first shot count because a follow-up shot is quite rare and I have never taken one. However, I do have four more rounds ready to go, if a second or third shot were to present itself.
Here's an interesting statement from an article on terminal ballistics:
The first hit is the most important, because endorphins that are released into the body as a result of serious injury cause the constriction of the blood vessels, reduce or eliminate most pain, and condition the body to operate with minimal oxygen in the blood. If the first hit is not immediately lethal, then subsequent hits will often be less effective in quickly dropping the target, even if they are lethal wounds. Few people realize this, but it is well documented. It is the same mechanism which makes a startled or alert deer harder to kill than one which is completely surprised, because fear also triggers the release of endorphins.
From what I've learned from my introductory psychology class, I can say that the endophin release part is true and personally I think it makes sense about the next few shots not having as much of an effect. (Note that it does not say it has no effect, just less of an effect)
For me, where I hunt, it's so thick that I have to make the first shot count because a follow-up shot is quite rare and I have never taken one. However, I do have four more rounds ready to go, if a second or third shot were to present itself.
09-28-2006, 11:44 AM
#77
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas and Arkansas
Posts: 1,496
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
I use to shoot until they dropped. Now they get one shot and they will go down. Interestingly enough, when I shoot a deer with my 30-06 under 50 yards, they go down in their tracks, but if I shoot with my 300 Wby at ranges under 50 yards they act like they haven't been hit, but I always find them within 50 yards.
09-28-2006, 12:55 PM
#78
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
I don't think that any of us "one shot, one kill" guys would dispute a "mercy shot!" But where I hunt, you rarely would get a second shot anyway!
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that when you hear someone emptying a gun at a deer, 9 out of 10 times, every shot missed!
I'm not claiming to be the best shot in the world, but if you didn't hit a calm, still, broadside deer, with a well aimed shot, what are the other 3 or 4 shots going to be? Hail Mary's!!!!
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that when you hear someone emptying a gun at a deer, 9 out of 10 times, every shot missed!
I'm not claiming to be the best shot in the world, but if you didn't hit a calm, still, broadside deer, with a well aimed shot, what are the other 3 or 4 shots going to be? Hail Mary's!!!!
09-28-2006, 01:25 PM
#79
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
People over look the shock value. Blood loss is only one variable in the equation. Animals hit by highpower firearms also experience a great deal of traumafrom shock. Thats why some animals drop in their tracks when hit in non-CNS areas. Those animals haven't bled out, therewasn't enough time. Thats why larger bullets tends to kill faster, more energy displaced = more trauma/shock. Thatsanother reason for follow up shots.
OBTW if a animal goes straight down at the first shot the best thing to do is to cycle the bolt and get back on target so a follow up can be taken if needed. You can celebrate later. Too much game is lost due to people looking over their scopes instead of through them. JMHO
OBTW if a animal goes straight down at the first shot the best thing to do is to cycle the bolt and get back on target so a follow up can be taken if needed. You can celebrate later. Too much game is lost due to people looking over their scopes instead of through them. JMHO
09-28-2006, 02:02 PM
#80
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: How many of you shoot until it drops?
Shato,
I like that last part (especially)big time.
Cycle that bolt and bear down on them, then when/if they start to get up your next shot is at a semi-stationary target. and you are not caught with your pants down. Can't do that when one is busy admiring his handiwork with an empty in the chamber the the rifle at ones side.
Pants down. Chuckle, chuckle.... reminds me of old BeaverJack and his "pink arsed mama's boys."
I like that last part (especially)big time.
Cycle that bolt and bear down on them, then when/if they start to get up your next shot is at a semi-stationary target. and you are not caught with your pants down. Can't do that when one is busy admiring his handiwork with an empty in the chamber the the rifle at ones side.
Pants down. Chuckle, chuckle.... reminds me of old BeaverJack and his "pink arsed mama's boys."
