7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Considering my first gun purchase and would like some opinions about recoil mostly concerning these two rifles. I have virtually no shooting experience, but did shoot a friends 7mm mag and a 300 wby. I found it hard to be objective about the recoil since up till now I've been a bow shooter. Definitely going to get a muzzle-brake on either one. I spoke to one gun smith and he told me that the 300 win is not going to kick more than a .243 with the brake and if it is made to fit me right. Going to be hunting elk for sure and maybe black bear someday. I hunt in the mountains of Colorado so maybe that will answer some of the shot distance questions. Any help appreciated!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Well, if you are dead set on a brake, I would opt for the 7mm, just because of ammo availabilty and price. Just keep in mind their are better options out their for you. Having hunted with a brake, I can assure you it is not at all pleasant. You need to utilize hearing protection, or damage will occur. Also, the amount of debris that thing can throw in your face is amazing, especially if you take a shot in the prone position. My wife can shoot a 270 win with an 8 pound rifle/scope (combined weight) with no problems. She doesn't shoot 100 rounds a day, but can manage ok. Another option is the 7mm in a Browning BAR. That semi-auto action is gas fed, which takes down the kick a lot. I had one in 30-06 that felt like a 243, and I imagine the 7mm would feel about the same. This was going to be the outfit I was going to buy my wife for an out of state deer hunt before plans had to be changed. Except she wanted the BAR in 270. Good luck, hope this helps. If you would like to talk to my wife about it, drop me a PM and I will have her read it and respond.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Thanks for the reply. I did know about the hearing protection issue with a brake, but not the debris. I did think briefly about a .270, but this is probably going to be the only rifle I will ever buy so I want to make sure all the bases are covered. The guys I work with and the gun smith I mentioned are the only people I am around who know anything about guns so I thought that my best choices were the 7mm and the 300 based on what I am being told. Although my coworkers are dead set against me getting a 300 win.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

either of these cartridges is more than enough to shoot a lady hunter.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

As others have recommended, a rifle with a muzzle brake is unbearable to fire without ear protection. And the notion of wearing electronic ear protection while you are hunting - day after day - is not all that practical. They are uncomfortable and you don't hear as well at distance as you do normally. They tend to really amplify things close to you and not reveal sounds at distance very well. I tried it for awhile - hunting with a T/C Contender pistol. Couldn't make it work.

I would recommend getting a rifle without a muzzle brake. Semi auto's kick less than bolt guns. Heavier rifles kick less than light rifles. The best recoil pad is the Limbsaver/Simm's. Rugers kick more than Remingtons or Weatherby's (stock design). Take a look at the 7MM-08 orthe .280 Remington. They will kill anything in North America, with good bullets and good bullet placement,as long as you keep your shots inside 300 yards.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

The 280rem might be the ideal choice in this situation.With a good recoil pad,recoil would not be excessive.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

As a gunsmith my recommendation for all first time shooters, ladies or men, that want a single gun for everything is a mid weight .30-06 with a quality recoil pad such as the Sims LimbSaver or the Pachmyr decelerator. Recoil is manageable in all loadings and if you find that it is hitting you too hard, there are a wide variety of lighter loads that you can step down to. The '06 can handle anything from long range antelope hunting to dense cover big game up to and including the big bears and moose. Practical ballistics are equal to the 7mm mag (unless you're shooting super long range, which a newbie shouldn't be doing anyway) and it doesn't have the recoil. It'll be much more pleasant to shoot than either the 7mm or the .300 which means you'll enjoy it more and spend more time with it at the range. The added proficiency will more than make up for any small losses in ballistics it gives up to the .300 mag. and the ammo is cheaper which also means you'll shoot it more. And, it won't require a muzzle break which means you'll enjoy shooting it more. (If you haven't guessed, my take home message is; whatever you get, shoot it a lot.) The big key in getting your first rifle is getting one that fits you properly. Shop around and fondle as many different styles and makes of rifles as you can before you buy. Have fun!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Okay, so if I consider the .280 how easy is it to find ammo, and for that matter how common is the gun to find?

The 30-06 I am familiar with a little bit. Is a 300 yd. shot pretty typical for even an experienced shooter in a hunting situation? The fellows I work with talk about commonly taking 500 yd or longer shots in the field. Now I know that I will be taking close shots until I am proficient, but what about later. I have heard that a 30-06 drops like a rock. I was also told that a woman is built differently than a man and cannot judge the recoil on a rifle unless it is built specifically for her.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I would try out a 270. It's enough for an elk, but should be much for managable for a lady. Plus, there's lots of loads available.

You could also go for the 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag, andbuy Remington Managed Recoil ammo, and I think Federal makes recoil ammo as well. It does decrease the recoil, but you may have to special order it in.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Although the 280rem is not nearly as common as the 30-06,there is a fair variety of loads available and ammunition isn't usually hard to find.It is very similar to the 270win,but it does handle heavier bullets.The 7mm-08 is very similar to the 280rem,with even less recoil,and the selection of ammunition is greater.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Another vote for the 280. I don't think you could do better. With todays outstanding bullets, the 270, 280 and 7x57 Mauser will handle all Non dangerous NA big Game. There is an article in this months Handloader magazine where a gal took her bull elk at 300+ yards with the 7x57. These rifles are modest in recoil and good out to 3-400 yards.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

If those guys are telling you that they are "commonly" taking 500 yard + shots at game I'd quit listening to them and definitly find someone else to learn to "hunt" from. They aren't hunters, they're shooters at best and BS artists more than likely. 300 yards is a long ways to be shooting at an animal I don't care where or what it is. A 500 yard shot should be a rarity in any hunters life, and it isn't anything I'd go bragging about. Shooting 300-500 yards isn't about what caliber you're shooting, it's about knowing your weapon and knowing how to shoot. A properly loaded .30-06 that you're familiar with and have shot a lot will do better at 500 yards than a .300wm that you haven't.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Could not agree more. 300 is my limit and even that is darn seldom.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Hmmm, seems that justbecause you are a woman, the majority of folks want you to go with cartridges less than you have already shot..
I don't buy it given your plans. Your plans may not be foolproof, but they are reasonable.
If you get a muzzlebrake, then get one that can be removed and a thread protector put on in its place. Practice and get to know the rifle with the muzzlebrake (and hearing protection) on. Then as the season approaches drop the muzzlebrake, re-check your sight in. You won't feel any recoil in the field.

I always recommend that a person's first three long guns should be a 22LR, a 12 gauge, and a 30-06. I agree with the earlier assessment that your "500 yard" office mates may be a bit "conversational" I would encourage you to look at the 30-06 andstudy the ballistics with 180 grain bullets and a 200 yard sight in and ask yourself if the minor difference in drop (between it and the 7mmRemMag and the 300WinMag) at up to 400 yards is really a deal killer.

That said if you don't want the 30-06, then I'd recommend you follow your original plan.

You might want to check the "Prefierred Elk Cartridge Poll" up in the Big Game Hunting Forum, I believe HikChick uses as 7mmRemMag. When the rubber meets the road on elk hunting, the cartridges many recommend for othersare NOT what they use themselves.

You go girl, go kick some arse! AFTER you make sure the rifle is set up for you from top to bottom and you get someone knowledgable to give you some recoil management pointers. Use the gunsmith as your tie breaker on various opinions and as a resource to get you access to recoil management --- no talking about it is not enough!

Good Luck.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I like the 280 but consider it a handloaders gun.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I agree again Vap. Shells for the 280 are not on every shelf nor are there a lot of factory options available although its getting better.

I consider the 270, 280 and 30-06 as well as the 308, interchangable for game up to and including elk and moose. I would recommend the same guns to a pro linebacker.:DYes throw the 7x57 mauser and 7mm-08 in the mix as well. Bullets have come a long way and these rifles with modern bullets are all capable of taking these animals.( Except maybe on the internet);)I used the 30-06 most because thats the first big game rifle I ever used. The old Eddiestone that my dad bought for 20.00 at a Army surplus store in the 50's .

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Federal lists 7 loads for the 280rem,remington another 4,winchester 2 and hornady 1 for a total of at least 14 factory loads.These loads include bullets such as the accubond and partition,so factory 280remloads suitable for moose and elk are certainly availble.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I have to respectfully disagree a little bit with EKM. My advise isn't being given because you are a woman but rather from what you have told us in your posts.

You said that you shot a 7mm and 300 mag and right off stated that you would definetly be installing a muzzle brake if you purchased one of these. I, as well as others here, get paid to install brakes and try to talk people out of installing one. If you need a brake to shoot any gun comfortably then you bought too much gun. Plain and simple.

There are many options available to reduce felt recoil other than a muzzle brake. Such as mercury recoil reducers, good recoil pads, making sure the stock fits you properly, etc...

Since you obviously don't like the recoil of the magnums then I strongly suggest the .270, .280, .308, 30-06, and other similar cartridges with the 30-06 winning for a one gun hunter. It is a versatile as it gets in center fire rifles. Learn to shoot one of them and you will be able to kill any non dangerous game animal in North America with no problems. The key to using these less powerful cartridges is to use a premium, well constructed bullet and don't take stupid shots.


As far as your "regular 500 yard shooters" go........ While I don't know them I highly doubt that they are making all that many 500 yard shots on elk or any other animal. It really isn't as common as some BS artists would have you believe. Unless it was laser ranged I would take it with a grain of salt. 200 yards can look like 500 yards when you are in unfimiliar hilly and mountainous terrain. My longest shot at an elk has been right about 150 yards and as close as 20 yards.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I'll chime in with my .02 cents worth. I have never shot a 30-06 that is comfortable for me to shoot and I am 6' 220lbs. I can shoot my 7mag all day long and not even think twice about it. I think an '06 has more of a "punch" recoil, whereas a 7mm has more of a "push" type recoil. I haven't shot a 300win mag in a few years, so I can't really remember what they had for felt recoil. I have shot a 270WSM and a 300WSM in the last few months and neither of them were bad to shoot either. I have a Browning A-Bolt Stalker in 7mm that I have let alot of ppl shoot that don't like recoil, and all have said it was very comfortable, easy to shoot.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Try to avoid anyone that throws the 500 yard number around regularly...lol. As you are around the sport more you will be able to pick out the smoke salesmen from the hunters ;)I am on the right side of the river here but I can say in 23 years of deer hunting I have had a whopping total of 3 300+ yard shots. So I would say beware when they start throwin the big yardage numbers around. Also beware of those saber toothed elk.....270 and 280 bullets bounce right off em! :DTakes at least a 416 Rem to knock one down.


As James would say...them things your boots bolt to are called feet...its ok to use em to get closer. :DEntirely too many things start to go wrong past even 150 yards for somebody that doesnt practice a lot to consistently make killing hits at distances equal to or greater than 150.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Hey Rammer how does the recoil compare from a 270wsm to a 30/06 or the 7mm mag?

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

The 270WSM was more of a "jolt" in my opinion. It was very tolerable, never lost my sight picture when I was zeroing/testing handloads for my buddy. My buddys fiance used it to take a cow elk this fall with 140gr Nosler Accubonds, and she has no problem shooting it (5'6" 115lbs). This was also the first gun other than a 20 gauge she shot in her first year of hunting. The shortmags do bark alot more than standard calibers, so make sure you wear hearing protection while shooting.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Lady Arwen:

A 7mm Wby. Mag. with a muzzlebrake will recoil like a 25-06 Rem. A .300 Wby. Mag. will recoil like a 30-06 Sprg. You can also have a mercury reducer installled in the stock, along with a high quality recoil pad to reduce recoil.

In the field you can use a www.WalkersGameEar.com for noise protection and hearing enhancement. They are small and fit around the outside of your ear.

Using all three of these products a .300 Wby. Mag. will be a very good all around rifle for you. With a .300 Wby. Mag. you can hunt any animal in North America. Good luck.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Thing is, with a .30-06 you can hunt every animal in North America and you don't need all that extra stuff.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

True. You may want more which is fine. You don't need more, Thats been proven thousands of times. More guns is good for the market and more gun owners is better for everyone.:D

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I used to believe this too, but recently bought a .416 Riby that has a VAIS brake on it. It is more pleasant to shoot from the recoil standpoint than my Ruger .375 H&H No. 1H, and the people shooting next tome at the range said that the side noise and blast sounded like a .30/'06 without a brake!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I have used all the guns discussed for elk except for the 243. These animals do die like anything else when shot properly. A gun that will do everything you want: be sufficient for use on elk and bear, ready availability of ammo and at a good price, your ability to practice a lot without recoil causing you to flinch, and easily reach out to 300 -350 yards, is as many people have said the 30-06 with a good recoil pad.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Like most of the others here, I'd say stay away from muzzle brakes, if you value your hearing! Brakes are louder to the sides than from the shooters position, but even at that, the blast is worse than recoil! Even if it is not "felt," the damage to your ears is not worth it! Believe me, I can tell at the range, even several spots down the line if someone is shooting with a muzzle brake!
While the muzzle brakes are very effective, there are other ways of reducing recoil! Many good ways of reducing recoil have already been mentioned, autoloaders, stock style, and rifle weight also play a big part in recoil!
For example, I have a lightweight .308 and it actually feels as bad as, or worse than my heavier 7MM RM!
Finally, to the common 500 yarders, 99 out of 100, HORSE FEATHERS!!!

The majority of my hunting is East Texas, but even at that, we get a little long-range action on pipeline right-of-ways and such!
So, 300 yards is a long way, unless you practice a lot!
If you regularly sight in at 100 yards, its not really that HARD to miss at 300 yards!
And, unless you are really good at it, or have a range finder, its not easy to "guesstimate" 300-500 yard shots!
So, if you have experience with the 7MM RM, you CAN get one that works for you, WITHOUT the muzzle brake! (if I really HAD to choose between the two, I'd take a .280 over the 7 MM mags anyday!)
If thats too much, anything in 7MM-08 up to the 7MM RM should serve you well! WITHOUT magnum recoil, or muzzle brakes!
Good luck, M' Lady!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I, too, believe the Vias is the best muzzle brake out there. Itmakes a CF rifle only about 25% louder instead of more than 50% louder like the rest of them. It's still louder. And the guns are pretty loud with no brake at all. But if I can't talk a customer out of the muzzle brake, a Vias is the one to have.

Personally, I would forget the brake and spend the money on one of those Caldwell Lead Sleds. Assuming one already knows how to shoot, I would do my sighting and load development from the Lead Sled. You won't feel the recoil in the field shooting at game.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

.300 Win. Mag. no muzzle brake.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I'd stay real clear of a muzzle brake. A good friend has been shooting a 300Win with a break for years. He's a little hard of hearing now. It seems that you trade recoil pain with hearing pain. Either will develop into a flinch. The 7mm mag without a break, or step down a notch to.30-06. You can get reduced recoil loads in both I beleive, and you can step the load up a little as you feel more comfortable.500 yard shots?????

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Thank you for all the replys. I would like to say that I know exactly what I'm going to do based on the information you've given me, but I'm still unsure which way to go. I wouldn't be opposed to a 30-06 or a .270 at this point. The gunsmith went to a big show in Oklahoma on Thursdayand said that if he found a really good deal he would pick it up for me. Now, whether he will be getting a 7mm mag or a 300 win as far as a deal, I don't know. After that has played out and I find out whether or not he bought something I will have to go back to the drawing board. Nobody here (of course) made any big deal about the muzzle brake.If I do end up with the 7mag or 300 I'll make it work.Being a first generation hunter sort of makes it hard and you are at the mercy of whoever is helping you at the time!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Good luck Lady! I was the only hunter in my family as well. The best way to learn is to just do it. Eventually you will sort it all out. The main thing is use what you want, hunt at your own pace and the biggest things....dont put any pressure on yourself and HAVE FUN!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

"Like most of the others here, I'd say stay away from muzzle brakes, if you value your hearing! Brakes are louder to the sides than from the shooters position, but even at that, the blast is worse than recoil! Even if it is not "felt," the damage to your ears is not worth it! Believe me, I can tell at the range, even several spots down the line if someone is shooting with a muzzle brake! "


The VAIS brake on my 416 Rigby does NOT seem to fit this description. And I have a Lead Sled coming! But it is to be used primarily with my "brakeless" Ruger 1S in .45/70, which is giving 57 foot-pounds of recoil with the 400-grain Barnes Original semi-spitzer I use in it with 60 grains of IMR 3031.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Lady Arwen, when I lived in Fairbanks, AK, in the mid-1960's, there was a doctor's wife there who used a Model 70 .270 WCF for all game in the far north including moose and polar bear. Her load was a 150-grain Nosler Partition (old style) bullet loaded to 2850 FPS. She rarely needed more than one shot for anything.

Shot placement is everything! The biggest bore in the world is no substitute forproper shot placement.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Okay, back to choices again. The gunsmith didn't go to the show after all. (Heck, he didn't evenknow what I was talking aboutwhen I called. Not sure THAT is a good sign.)I'm going to try andfindsomeone with a 30-06 and a 270 that will let me shootso I know what those calibers are like before I commit to anything.Is therea place that might let me pay to shoot their guns?Is it like bows where you justbuy based on opinion and hope for the best?

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Lady Arwen,

If you areconsidering those two cartridges instead of the earlier two magnums, then please go to the Big Game Section and look at the "Poll: Elk Cartridge Preference"....

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1459421&mpage=13&key=&#14951 201495120

I'd hate to see you compromising and choosing off of the "weakest end" of the que.
================================================== ==

I'd wholeheartedly recommend the 30-06 over the .270 (don't let someone sell you on a couple inches of trajectory over the frontal cross section, payload, versatility and "thump-ability" you get with the 30-06). Evenmost the died-in-the-wool 270 shooters will grant that the 30-06 is more versatile.

If you can tell the difference in recoil between them (which I'm betting you won't with correspondingly comparable bullets in each --- 150s in the 270 and 180s in the 30-06) then I'll be surprised. If you do notice a difference, thenyou can always use the next notch lower weight BarnesTSX bullets (165 grain instead of 180 grain)to reduce the recoil and still "delivercomparable goods" down rangeversus the heavier conventional lead bullets. I used to be a Nosler Partition fan (advanced, but lead core bullet) however, as of late, I have been using exclusively Barnes TSX.

(Barnes are solid copper instead of lead like most other bullets --- so the samephysical size of bullet weighs a bit less --- copper is less dense than lead---YET they penetrate like there is no tomorrow by retaining nearly all their weight and opening up into a 4 petal "cutting machine" as they pass in one side and out the other of the critter.)

So much for the "reduce recoil with lighter bullets but still save the day with Barnes" discussion. In closing....

A 270 is a downsized 30-06.
Elk are very much UPSIZED compared to deer!

We had a young lady, new, 100 pounds or so, and 14 get her first elk with us and she used a.... 30-06.
I'd recommend pickingsomething a notch or twoabove the weaker end ofthe que.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

EKM will tell you that I am probably the biggest .270 fan on this board and will argue its killing abilities all day long but even I agree with this 100%. ;)

The 30-06 is absolutely the most versatile cartridge ever devised bar none and is IMHO the best choice for a single gun hunter that wants to hunt everything from pronghorn to moose. The only thing I wouldn't jump right up and hunt with it would be the big bears although it is certainly capable there as well.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I thought the original post was 7mm mag or .300 win mag.

The 7mm mag doesn't have much more recoil than the .30-06.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Lady Arwen you never mentioned what your primary game you'll want to hunt. If you are thinking antelope and deer 7x57 , 270 and 308 would be my top choices for either sex.
They are all on the mild side when talking recoil and with the proper ammunition and a shooter that practices will take down deer size game at 300 yards and in. On game such as elk or moose shots should be limited to 200 yards or so ,along with the proper bullet.
My second tier would be the 25-06 , 280 and 30-06. The 25-06 s good for deer but a little on the light side formoose and elk but could be used with a quality bullet and shots are kept within reason for the caliber but give you the added option for prarie dogs and such.
Like some of the post here I don't even think about shots beyond 300 yards unless conditions where perfect, no wind , good solid rest , then for deer sized game I'd stretch it to 350 if I was carrying the right rifle. For elk it would be 275 yards. I want the bullet to hit with enough authority to ensure Quick,Clean kills. We owe that much to the animals we pursue.