RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

In reply to ELKampMaster: This year we're going to keep it close to home since it is my first year with rifle and hunt around Woodland Park since we know the area well. Not abundant elk, but we've been hunting it archery for several years and usually manage to find out where a few are hiding. Getting close enough for an archery shot has been a problem. The guys I work with hunt Vail and also Saguache quite a bit, but they don't always come back with an animal either.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Good Luck Lady Arwen. Thats why they call it Hunting. You don't always score but its always fun to play.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

LOL Sorry EKM but I wouldnt be a good one testing gutshots. I dont take iffy shots. So I'll leave the testing to you and the magnum boys :DI know my equipment and myselfs limits and dont depend on firepower to make up for marginal marksmanship, shot placement or stalking skills.

However I will say that when i finally get to go elk hunting and get out of the "peanut gallery".:D I will be more than happy to let you know the results good or bad.



Good luck Lady. The fun is always in the chase, killing is just a bonus.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Lady Arwen,
After doing archery pursuit over the years,your 7mmRemMagshould make it seem easy other than the fact the elktend to be out otthe rut by then. Good luck.
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James:
Yesssss..... and.... what about those "243-hit'em-bad-killed-'em-where-they-stood" elkyou were espousing?
(1) & (2) you might recall? Or maybe not.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

If I was just in it just for the kill I would have quit by now. Just love to be out there and anything else is just icing on the cake. Although a little more icing now and again would be nice! Just got the scope I'm going to put on it today. Took a chance on the 4x12 Cabelas Alaskan Guide Premium. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks again to everyone who has voiced an opinion and offered support!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Gut shots with the 243 will do a lot of Damage and if the liver is effective they will often just waver a bit and lay down and die. There is no excuse of course for going that route but gut shoit animals that I have seen were not effected much by caliber size. Years ago when the old black powder cartridge like the 44-40 were common, folks would juust pop elk in the mid section and wait a few minutes for them to lay down and die. Unethical as hell but effective. Bigger calibers can make a difference if big bones or bad angles are in play but thats up to the hunter. Good shot with good bullets from most any midium size cartridge will do the job. Its just fine to make 30-06 your minimum camp rifle, thats your right and a good policy. Fior use who have had great success with both smaller and larger cartridges will continue to do so as well. I use the 30-06 mostly now but wouldn't hesitate to step down to the 308 size cases and the 270&280. I would draw my own line at the 264 bullet. This even though MANY elk have been taken with the 25-06 as well. Not for me. ANd certainly, no 243's.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Doe Dump,
Still thinkyou would REALLYbe an excellent candidate to test your hypothesis!

BTW, good luck stalking your way past the Mississippi.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

James,
Really?
If your words are in ernest, then youhave immensely moreexperience withgut shot elk than I do.
(1) How in the heck did that happen? and,
(2) How did youallow yourself to continue to beinvolved withit?

Ah, let me make sure I understand this. So in addition to the "several 243-hit'em-bad-yet-killed-'em-where-they-stood" elk kills, there was also an additionalgroup of "other" elk that you have seen gut shot with bigger (or smaller maybe?)cartridges --- andyou are using the comparison between these two groups of gut shot elkto make your point that cartridge size is largely irrelevant in this?

Damn, you appear to be a witness to the "hunter equivalent of war crimes" IMHO, especially if strong measures were not taken to put an end to its re-occurance (which, on the surface of it, you make soundcasual....)
Again:
(1) How in the heck did this first hand witnessing of such a streak of seemingly prolific gut shooting take place? and,
(2) How did youallow yourself to continue to beinvolved withit? and,
(3) What actions, if any, were taken to try to stop/prevent it?

I'm feelingstronger convictionsabout how we're running our elk camp by the minute --- "heavy handed" rules and all!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Gut shot elk will run a little ways then lie down, but they don't just die right away. They sit there and suffer for some time then die. I have only gut shot elk twice. One time was about a 320 yard shot in the desert with a 7mm mag and the wind made my bullet drift just a little farther than I had expected, and I caught it a little far back. I hit it on the run after that shot and it laid down to die and I put one more bullet in it to dispatch it as quickly as possible. The other time I was shooting a new 30-06 for the first time ever that I thought was perfectly zeroed in. I was too busy to sight-in myself, so I had my friend, an ex marine sniper trainer, to do it instead. First shot the elk were right on the edge of the timber and I swore my shot was right on the money, but the elk dissapeared into the trees. Followed a sketchy blood trail and as it turned out I hit the elk right in the liver instead of the lungs. It had gone an bedded down maybe 200 yards away, and still had enough energy when I jumped it to run to the other side of the small draw, where I dropped it with a double lung shot. After the hunt I took my rifle back to the range and discovered that I could not get it to hold any kind of group even at the 100 yard target, and I'm still not sure what the deal is, because it is real messed up right now and doesn't see any hunting time. Moral of the story is, if you gut shoot an elk good enough, like say a liver shot, they do go and bed down, but they do not die right away like some may believe. It is still the hunter's duty to track the animal down and dispatch it ASAP.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

You Bet.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

James,
Ah, "You bet"? ----- You bet What?

Earlier you claimed....

And I responded,
Really?
If your words are in ernest, then youhave immensely moreexperience withgut shot elk than I do.
(1) How in the heck did that ("several")happen? and,
(2) How did youallow yourself to continue to beinvolved withit?

And then you followed up with....

Ah, let me make sure I understand this. So in addition to the "several 243-hit'em-bad-yet-killed-'em-where-they-stood" elk kills, there is another cluster of"other" elk that you have seen gut shot withothercartridges --- andyou are using the comparison between these two groups of gut shot elkto make your point that cartridge size is largely irrelevant in this?

For the moment, Igottaset asidethe "cartridge part" of the discussion, andpoint out the glaring "issue" in your message....

You appear to be a witness to whatisessentially the hunter equivalent of "war crimes" against wildlife. This would be especially true, if strong measures were not taken to put an end toitsre-occurance (which, on the surface of it, it sounds like it wasn't....)

(1) How in the heck didyour first hand witnessing of such a streak ofgut shooting come about? and,
(2) How did youallow yourself to continue to beinvolved withit? and,
(3) What actions, if any, were taken to try to stop/prevent it?

After reading your posts, I'm feelingeven stronger convictionsabout how we're running our elk camp, including our perceived heavy handed rules covering "cartridges, ranges, and backup" and the rest ofthe way we run things.

I know our culture is hung up on "individual freedoms" to do whatever folks want and,
Nowhere is that belief stronger than in our hunter community,

Technically wildlife are property of the state to be sold via licenses and dispatched,
Even so there are limits....

Taken to this extreme you seem to describe, the hunter's rights have to give way a bit...
What about the "elk's rights" and some basic decency in this deal?
IMO, this stuff can't just be "okay" and everyone just turn a blind eye to it.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Let's put this one to bed. The lady got her questions answered and bought a rifle.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Good luck staying away from that mirror and not******** yourself to death......



I have seen some arrogant folks on here but you take the cake :D Know all, done all, seen all and yours is the only experience that matters or is credible...you da man!!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

DD. that about says it all you saved me a lot of wasted typing..Good idea Roskoe.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Roskoe,
That was well done., but no....
Yes,Lady Arwenfound a fine elk rifle (in spite of it all)and that is a darned good thing.
However, that is not the only thing that has been unfolding over the course of the last 10 pages....
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Doe Dumper,
You're the one that started this little "gut shot" discussion. I responded as honestly as I knew how and as a result, this "baggage" gotdropped into my lap. I'm working with verbatum quotes levelled my direction that claim somepretty outrageousthings, so asking for an explaination doesn't seem unreasonable.

Note: I must say, that yourapparent obsession/fixation about beds, sleeping, mirrors, and intercourse (ah, I see you editted/cleaned it up a bit --- good for you)and other inuendos that you have wove into this thread seem a bitrinappropriate for a public forum. IMO, it would be better to just stick to the facts of what is being discussed versus your experiences.
================================================== ==

James,
It's nice to have these two fellows "pulling" for you. One is quite credible. However, you wrote what you wrote.... and claimed what you claimed....

What the heck IS the deal with all these gut shot elk experiences that you areclaiming first person knowledge of?

Did this really happen or wereyou just being "a little over-aggressive" in arguing a point? If you want toleave it as isand takefull credit, then of course I would certainly be glad tohelp you out with that any way I can.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

That may be true EKM...I do enjoy things besdies trying to convince other posters and myself on the size of my gun. I got a few more things to say but out of respect to the board and the fact Roskoe says now is a good time to end it...I will stop.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Any port looks goodin a storm.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I guess if you feel like you HAVE to continue this you are invited to pm me....if not then I guess we are done.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

I think that if you're worried about the amount of recoil that you find someone who has the rifle and caliber you're considering buying, if possible. Test fire it and other rifle calibers combinations.

I personally think that a .300 WM is the rifle (Tikka) for me. I don't agree with the gunsmith about it kicking as much a a .243. On a bench rest I notice the .300 WM. It kicks. However, with the Elk I've shot with my Tikka .300 WM I was so concentrated on the Elks I was shooting, I did not notice the recoil. You're also hopefully shooting less rounds when hunting, than with the initial sighting anyway. A good bore sighting first is worth a lot to avoid a sore should for the initial siting of a new rifle/scope combination. Have fun.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Doe Dumper,

In answer to your post....

(1) Yes, at least until I get an answer of some sort.

(2) NoWay.[IMHO, you are a bit to risque to risk non-public internet communication with]
(3) I doubt it,given your perchant for following me around and providing "running commentary"
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MinnFinn,
Lady Arwen, went ahead and bought a Remington SPSin7mmRemMag, good post though!

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

JamesB,

So how did you come to be personally present at the "gut shooting" ofall thoseelk as described at the top of the prior page (10)?

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

GUIDING YOUNG HUNTERS. I was not running the operation, I have nothing to say about what the states allow for hunting rifles, You can coach kids and watch them shoot but when the moment of truth comes, They pull the trigger and everyone is not perfect. That is my close to this subject, Have a good season.

RE: 7mm mag or 300 win for a lady hunter?
 

Delete.