In reply to ELKampMaster: This year we're going to keep it close to home since it is my first year with rifle and hunt around Woodland Park since we know the area well. Not abundant elk, but we've been hunting it archery for several years and usually manage to find out where a few are hiding. Getting close enough for an archery shot has been a problem. The guys I work with hunt Vail and also Saguache quite a bit, but they don't always come back with an animal either.

Good Luck Lady Arwen. Thats why they call it Hunting. You don't always score but its always fun to play.

LOL Sorry EKM but I wouldnt be a good one testing gutshots. I dont take iffy shots. So I'll leave the testing to you and the magnum boys I know my equipment and myselfs limits and dont depend on firepower to make up for marginal marksmanship, shot placement or stalking skills.

However I will say that when i finally get to go elk hunting and get out of the "peanut gallery". I will be more than happy to let you know the results good or bad.



Good luck Lady. The fun is always in the chase, killing is just a bonus.

Lady Arwen,
After doing archery pursuit over the years,your 7mmRemMagshould make it seem easy other than the fact the elktend to be out otthe rut by then. Good luck.
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James:
Yesssss..... and.... what about those "243-hit'em-bad-killed-'em-where-they-stood" elkyou were espousing?
(1) & (2) you might recall? Or maybe not.

If I was just in it just for the kill I would have quit by now. Just love to be out there and anything else is just icing on the cake. Although a little more icing now and again would be nice! Just got the scope I'm going to put on it today. Took a chance on the 4x12 Cabelas Alaskan Guide Premium. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks again to everyone who has voiced an opinion and offered support!

Gut shots with the 243 will do a lot of Damage and if the liver is effective they will often just waver a bit and lay down and die. There is no excuse of course for going that route but gut shoit animals that I have seen were not effected much by caliber size. Years ago when the old black powder cartridge like the 44-40 were common, folks would juust pop elk in the mid section and wait a few minutes for them to lay down and die. Unethical as hell but effective. Bigger calibers can make a difference if big bones or bad angles are in play but thats up to the hunter. Good shot with good bullets from most any midium size cartridge will do the job. Its just fine to make 30-06 your minimum camp rifle, thats your right and a good policy. Fior use who have had great success with both smaller and larger cartridges will continue to do so as well. I use the 30-06 mostly now but wouldn't hesitate to step down to the 308 size cases and the 270&280. I would draw my own line at the 264 bullet. This even though MANY elk have been taken with the 25-06 as well. Not for me. ANd certainly, no 243's.

Doe Dump,
Still thinkyou would REALLYbe an excellent candidate to test your hypothesis!

BTW, good luck stalking your way past the Mississippi.

James,
Really?
If your words are in ernest, then youhave immensely moreexperience withgut shot elk than I do.
(1) How in the heck did that happen? and,
(2) How did youallow yourself to continue to beinvolved withit?

Ah, let me make sure I understand this. So in addition to the "several 243-hit'em-bad-yet-killed-'em-where-they-stood" elk kills, there was also an additionalgroup of "other" elk that you have seen gut shot with bigger (or smaller maybe?)cartridges --- andyou are using the comparison between these two groups of gut shot elkto make your point that cartridge size is largely irrelevant in this?

Damn, you appear to be a witness to the "hunter equivalent of war crimes" IMHO, especially if strong measures were not taken to put an end to its re-occurance (which, on the surface of it, you make soundcasual....)
Again:
(1) How in the heck did this first hand witnessing of such a streak of seemingly prolific gut shooting take place? and,
(2) How did youallow yourself to continue to beinvolved withit? and,
(3) What actions, if any, were taken to try to stop/prevent it?

I'm feelingstronger convictionsabout how we're running our elk camp by the minute --- "heavy handed" rules and all!

Gut shot elk will run a little ways then lie down, but they don't just die right away. They sit there and suffer for some time then die. I have only gut shot elk twice. One time was about a 320 yard shot in the desert with a 7mm mag and the wind made my bullet drift just a little farther than I had expected, and I caught it a little far back. I hit it on the run after that shot and it laid down to die and I put one more bullet in it to dispatch it as quickly as possible. The other time I was shooting a new 30-06 for the first time ever that I thought was perfectly zeroed in. I was too busy to sight-in myself, so I had my friend, an ex marine sniper trainer, to do it instead. First shot the elk were right on the edge of the timber and I swore my shot was right on the money, but the elk dissapeared into the trees. Followed a sketchy blood trail and as it turned out I hit the elk right in the liver instead of the lungs. It had gone an bedded down maybe 200 yards away, and still had enough energy when I jumped it to run to the other side of the small draw, where I dropped it with a double lung shot. After the hunt I took my rifle back to the range and discovered that I could not get it to hold any kind of group even at the 100 yard target, and I'm still not sure what the deal is, because it is real messed up right now and doesn't see any hunting time. Moral of the story is, if you gut shoot an elk good enough, like say a liver shot, they do go and bed down, but they do not die right away like some may believe. It is still the hunter's duty to track the animal down and dispatch it ASAP.

You Bet.