RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is pic of 695 bolt action
Mossberg with dinky barrel and the heavy long
rifled barrel for it. It has a recoil plate
like Rem/Sav, and two rear bolt lugs..Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Very exciting stuff!!!

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Read a report that H & H is going to
make Paradox rifle/shotguns again.Big bore
mania is catching on.Be able to use
shot and slugs, and with newer alloy
barrels, they'd be hairy like the guns Rob and
I have set up. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I tested in NEF 3' cases, Alliant 2400 with
small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when
case cooled there was majority of misfires
and squib loads. Don't reccomend it, not reliable.
Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action
GEHA with a heavy barrel like I will put
on it Make a good slug gun.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

The 12GA From Hell is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Saw info on a break action that
would handle 12ga FH.It is Cole,
with a strong top lock and real wide
strong extractor.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is long for our
long brass case, so they work fine.....
600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from 12ga
plastic shotgun cases.Ed[/align]

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Along with testing loads in 3.5" plastic, later tested same loads
in 3" RMC brass cases; and with 600gr slug, same wt 4227 and
7383 surplus powders got same 2100 fps.I got a MEC Super Sizer
coming to size base of plastic and RMC cases. Both are hard to
resize with regular die, but this will save time and allow many
more firings of the cases.Just got 3.5" plastic for dime each,
and this sizer will allow as many firings as the RMC brass.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

A bullet fella contacted me and he will make
750gr jacketed 12ga slugs for buck and a half.
He uses Corbin equipment, and that is a very
great price as others have quoted almost
50% more. Minimum order 500 bullets.He
has to get couple pieces of punch and die
tooling to make them .729" to fit most rifled
barrels, and he will get tooling if we pay
half, which is 300 bucks. I want to find
10 guys to put in 30 each plus order 50 or
a hundred and we have him get tooling ordered.
Contact me so I can see how many want to get
in on the deal.Then after I tally everyone
I will get back to you for the funds for dies
for you to send the them to him..Here is pic
of a sizer we got that does plastic
cases back to factory specs in few seconds
and allows 3 times more reloads. It will
also do the RMC cases I have. No more cases
sticking in dies, or spending 5 min
to get them sized only half assed.ED.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Hello,
I am a new member, just discovered this thread and I am fascinated by the concept of the 12Ga. FH.
I have a couple of questions though.
First, I have had several NEFand H&R break tops and while the bull barrel slug guns look impressive, it was designed as just another 12ga shotgun. My concern is thatthe latch mechanism on these breaktops has always seemed a little inadequate for the higher energy rifle rounds they have been offering barrels in. I have had a brand new .45-70 (Buffalo Classic) have such a touchy latch that it seemed to not be fully seating (it openedwith the pressure like on the second trigger pull on a set trigger system) and would even open on firingand required a rework to latch securely.
Do you have a feel for just how much this latch system can take or what it really is resisting as you increase pressures in longer brass shells?

Second, given the caliber, is there any legal implication to being in excess of .50" in terms of needing to register it as a destructive device (Class 3 weapon)?
I realize that shotguns were exempted due to being shot-shell weapons and popular opinion was that as long as they are smoothbore , no problem. But, with the advent of fully rifled slug barrels, where does the BATF(E) classify this sort of thing?
Given that you are "only" lengthening the chamber, it is still technically only a 12ga. "shotgun" albeit one with a long chamber firing solid projectiles at rifle velocities.
But, there have been rumblings about .50BMG cal rifles for some time now and I was wondering. i.e. are we simply ok for now until this is commercialized as a concept?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

It is perfectly legal. It simply has to fire shotgun shells. So, you put a 2-3/4" shell in there and fire it, and it is legal.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Matt is right- Shotguns are exempt whether smooth or rifled.The rifled
concept is 120 years old. Nothing new.However long you make chamber it just
has to fire 12ga shells of any shorter length. You can't neck a 30mm
down to .729" 12ga caliber and call it a 12 ga. Cases can be paper, brass,
steel, plastic, aluminum. Barrels can be any length, If under 18" taxed.
AS for NEF I use a little muscle to latch it tight. The Ultra action is
an alloy with heat treatment for good strength. Firing our long
brass case with much heavier loads than we do in plastic,
actually gives less thrust against the breach that heavy loaded shorter
plastic does. Reason; upon firing the brass grips the chamber, and holds part
of the thrust, up to the yield strength of the brass case, which means it
takes up to about 7000 lbs thrust. Plastic only takes about a third of that.
I never had any locking or thrust problems with NEF. Even the heavy loaded
600gr slugs in 3.5" plastic cases mentioned above. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG
size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt
handle base, another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs
still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown
Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98
Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for
my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun.
Loads up to 825 gr at 2500. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

The three From Hell cartridges----
My 28GA FH, 2nd Our 12GA FH, can
you guess the 3rd?. What do readers think. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Thirdthe 8GA From Hell, a real cartridge. 4.3 inch long
brass case. 8 ga shorter plastic case, plan on in same chamber.
Looking now for guns or actions and barrels. I make it
from 20mm Suzy brass(20mm Hispano Suiza), by putting
on a 8ga size rim and reshaping like we did 12GA FH....Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is pic of a bolt action bmg upper that will
do our 700HE and 12GA FH. Looks strong and
priced a $1000 now, Just change barrel, decent price
compared to others.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

8ga, we gonna do a couple, first one a test
gun in an Enfield with rear locking lugs.
All locking is in the rear, it is not exactly like
my 700HE one, all lugs seats gone in the
front like a Mauser shotgun.
May have a way to get barrels 'fast'---
fast being like 2 weeks, from the time I
have money to do it. And only about
150 bucks each.......Am working on it.
In pic you see long case sticking out of
the action, a couple 8ga plastic cases, a
couple of the 8ga kiln slugs, 3 oz and
hardened. Am looking for a slug built like the
Federal 10 ga one that has rounded nose and
hollow base, that will fit bores tight.
The barrels I am working deal on will be smoothbore.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Finally my Long Tom slug gun.....Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

We're going to test smoothbore slugs in 87
like these Brenneke KOs with our special
powder loads to get velocity up. Many guys are
getting accuracy with these in smooth and
rifled barrels, and I going to see if they
will stay together and be stable with speed added.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I just dont get it. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU KILLING WITH THAT!!!!! Sure aint deer.....

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

You load it down for deer, or use sabots that are lighter
and the speed gets you little more range with shotgun.
IT is mainly a thing to just shoot and have fun, putting holes
in the target that you don't need a scope to see.
Or disintigrating bigger pails of water than the peashooter
guys. Or maybe sometime you might meet something that
can chomp you in one bit, where the power
may be needed. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
This is a heavy barrel for that type of load,
don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I just don't get any part of this thread that seems to never die.:eek:

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Guys are getting deer with hairy Dixie slug loads, with hopped up
Buckhammer/ Hammerhead loads, hopped up saboted loads.
The shotgun only guys are getting more and more longer range
kills, better longer range groups, there are many guys experimenting
on getting better performance with 12 gauges, and other big bores.
Some of us don't don't see the point of 35 different 22 size calibers, but
to each his own. There are a lot of guys interested in big bores,
especially quite a few of the 5 millionshotgun onlyhunters, that
that want the potential big bore powerthat shotguns have with a
little work.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Certainly seems to be a LOT of guys interested in it on this forum.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

WellI know there is huge interest in better shotgun
slug or sabot loads when different types sell for as high as
4-5 bucks per shell. And different fancy slugs for reloading
with locked on wads are 3 bucks. The KO slugs mentioned
above are only 55 cents, wad and all, and guys are reporting
3 in groups at 75 yds in smoothbores. And we are showing how
to get the power also.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

So Beavis, whats the point? Are you actually going to hunt with that thing? What a waste of time. Its about as pointless as the 577 T-Rex. Thats a really good gun to watch people shoot and get their shoulder dislocated. Just think of all the things you could have had with the time and money wasted on this. Instead of trying to shoot further, why not learn how to actually stalk? Dont you have to have a license to manufacture guns?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Don't need a license for your own guns. And I don't work
others, that would be a no-no without ffl. I am not one that
says the only use of guns is hunting like a lot of anti
gunners do. My main deal is just the shooting and experimenting
and many seem to like putting the info to use in
the shooting fun they have.And the hunting they
do also.That's most important, the fun
of something hairy and different, however it is used.
And in 50 years of experimenting and shooting I've only
spent 5 grand, kinda of neat hobby for that little spent.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

In the long barrel 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.
The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to, as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Maybe it's because most of us are sitting back and reading the wonderful things Ed has posted, rather than adding useless comments like your own.

I cannot thank the guy enough for introducing me to the idea of shotgun actions for conversions. There are big power guns out there that can be unlocked with a little work. Guys are paying $2000-5000 for a new rifle trying to get the same thing: big energy. We are doing it for hundreds, and the rush of shooting it is still the same. I went out and bought a 210 just because of this very thread, and am currently converting it to a 20ga From Hell, down from a 12ga. It will be in a lighter, safari style rifle with iron sights. You can do many things with these guns and it's not all about having big energy all the time; it is about having big versatility.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

big versitility? for what? why not just get a 500 Nitro?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. The 765 gr Fed slug is hollowbase for
smooth bores. Roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic cases.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

10GA FH info.Fed factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Look real close at the bases of these
cases. What do you see. Comments...Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

First two cases are ours we had made by putting rims on bmg
brass, The right ones a santa sent me and appear to be
drawn, high strength case that are same dimensions.
Are they worth rounding up, seeing as how the guy
who made our first bunch just retired. .......Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Those things look crazy I have read the post all the way though. Very good job Ed very imformative. I would love to try one of those beast out. Maybe someday. Anyways good luck hope you attain what you have set out to do.