12GA From Hell
 

I'm visiter here telling about a new project that I mentioned in the slug guns thread. It is called the 12GA From Hell, that three of us
over on AR has worked on for last 2+ years. It is a long 12ga paradox style cartridge, but with a stronger case than used in the old days. We made case from bmg brass by putting a 12 ga size rim on bmg brass.First picture shows our case next to regular 12ga case, which can also be fired in our chambers.Second pictture
is my Savage 210 that I put cartridge in using heavy barrel and stock. I've got over 10,000 ft lbs with the Savage, other guys more with their heavier actions. Ed Hubel.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

That's absolutely insane :D

If I ever have a problem with nuisance dinosaurs I'll give you a call.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Why????? But then,again of course, why not?????

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

My question is what kind of accuracy are you getting, and how far? Might be interesting if it is getting good groups out to 200 yards.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Bet my daddy's Rem M11 kicked harder.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Jake-you may be right as my gun weighs 25 lbs, and soaks
up recoil nice.
longrifle-- i haven't shot for groups, need good weather,
Rob with his Borchardt can do 2 inch groups offhand,50 yds.
Here is pic of his nice African style gun.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Ed - I found a link to the site you crazy SOB's are using to communicate about this project and I must admit this is extremely interesting. I don't know all of the sciences involved with creating a new caliber but this is some cool stuff. If you guys have some pictures or video's of these monsters in action I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone on here by saying LET'S SEE THEM!! :DHave you guys sold any yet or is this simply a hobby gone bad?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

allcamo--We plan on pics and videos later.
Sometime this summer.All of
us so far are building just for ourselves, as I for
example am not a licensed manufacturer.
I just build wildcats( built a few) just for myself.
Now there are others building on various actions
for themselves.One on a AR50, couple on Encores,
couple on heavy doubles.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

man thats crazy but i like it

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

OK, next question. When you gonna have some turkey loads ready in this mother???


RA

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

so... how does your shoulder feel after that one!!!

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Not bad. Shot it 6 times in row once , no bruises. Had
a little guy who knows guns do the same, no problem.
In picture of Borchardt you can see how thick
recoil pad is. Ed.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is picture of case fired 36 times. Shows no visible
signs of thinning, none to be measured. Ans this case wasn't
even resized on bottom half, while reloading. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

now you have me interested, how do you make a cartridge like that, and what do you do to make your gun handle it?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

First we are running more pressure than regular shotshells
so we have heavier thicker barrels. Have heavy stock and pad. Mine and Rob's guns weigh 25 lbs. As for chamber we make
longer chamber reamers.Here is picture of bmg cases with
original rim turned down and threaded for the 12 gauge
size rims shown.Screwed on and loctited does the job.
Also in picture is 3 different slugs in our cases.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Now you have done it, dam you guys I WANT ONE how much do you have invested in them

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

You can build one on Savage for about $1000-Do you own.

Build one like Rob's for $3500-Do your own.

Hiring smith will add more to each.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is picture of a heavy double with high strength
alloy barrels we are checking on to see if they will work.
And see if we can get them.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

if you could make one in a side by side, i would probably buy one when i could get the money.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I might be more interested if I didn't see "12 gauge from Hell" on EVERY bloody shooting site I frequent. Anyone ever mention the "less is more" theory? Way too much "WATCH ME, MOMMY! LOOK! LOOK, MOMMY!" for my taste.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Adirondack Hunter-- That is reason we are checking that
double, so that you all can buy it, and take it to your smith
and have chamber lengthened.A simple job with reamers
most smiths already have. Save all the work we went through.
Charley-The reason we are getting word out is we want
more guys interested who may have ideas and/or guns to
help do tthis project easier, faster, and better.We've spent
3 years on this..Ed.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

You let me know how it turns out. I couldnt afford it now because im not even legal to buy guns, but the day i turn 18 if i have the money i will see if i can get that setup. One more question, how do you make the ammo?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Adirondack Hunter--well we hope to have things figured out
so it is easier for all coming after.Testing and checking
everything we can.Example,I tookflatnose
Bridger 750 gr solid banded hollowbase bullet
and shortened the nose. Actually made a slightly rounded
nose solid of 500 gr. With hollowbase it was still
a decent length, at one inch.I got it over
2800 fps, at my moderate pressures.Just doing a little
experimenting. Everyone got designs and wants
their ideas for slugs tested, so we do it.Ed.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Ed,
How many gr. of powder are you using? I'm trying to figure the recoil energyon that load for a 10 pound double coach gun. Let's see 500gr. bullet....2800 fps....

It's gotta be close to the same as your meanest 7th grade free safety at full speed.

C. Davis

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

CDavis- gun is 25 lbs to make testing easy.Could be lightened
to 18-20 lbs. Recoil about like a 10lb 458 Lott. I use slow
rifle powders, 230 gr plus. Use 4 buck a lb surplus.Case holds
320 gr of ball powder to base of 730 gr slug.I plan on testing
faster rifle powders in smaller amounts using wads to take up space.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I have a question, are ya'll using rifled barrels or smoothbores?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Our guns have rifled barrels now,but smooth would be
better for shot loads. And there are quitea few types nose
heavy slugs that work good in smooth, like Dixie is making
new one, a fellow in greece making one,plus all the regular
ones that have been used. WhenI get time I want to try
a smooth barrel.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is pic of a slug that Lefteris in Greece will send me to
speed test.Good for both smooth and rifled barrels.
It uses sabot as it is .629 and sabot gets up to .729
12ga size. Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

is that solid copper? if so then it would make a great big game round.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

260Rem--Yes that is brass. And hole in middle is like
the groove bullets allowing air through to reduce
turbulance and drag.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Hubel,

Any pics of the Sabot, or a bisect of a constructed shell?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

jc-Sorry I don't have that picture, but the sabot from
the description would be like the one Barnes uses
on their12ga saboted brass slug.Ed

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Looks like a great idea and a great big game or Africa weapon.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

These...ones?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

jc-Yes that the ones loaded in the Federal 3/4
oz loads it looks like to me.His will be like
those,except his slug is bigger diameter.Ed.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Here is some more sabot experimenting I did.Shot a couple of
A-Sq 900gr 600 NE slugs in a sabot I made from a heavy
12ga shotcup.Got it to 2300 at my moderate pressures.Here is picture showing slugs, shotcup and one loaded.Shotcup in case
is first one I made- too short. The ones finally used were full
length of slug up to ogive.Ed.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I guess my primary question has to be the obvious one.IstheSabot actually imparting any twist to the projectile, or is it simply acting as a buffer between the bullet andthe barrel?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

JC-Yes it puts twist to the bullet as all sabots do.IE
sabots are real tight fit or they'd blowout around them.
Fellow in Greece has a saboted slug that is hollowbase
and is supposed to shoot straight in smoothbores.Ed.

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

I realize it can be tough to give any absolute answers tomany questions but I will ask anyways...any idea how well these bullets are stabilizing? Or put another way, do you regularlyexperienced bullet tumbling, and if so at what distances?

RE: 12GA From Hell
 

Haven't had time to shoot long distance for groups or to
check for tumbling, but all rifled barrel 12 ga guys tell me that
saboted slugs seem to run true and accurate.A lot of guys
use them for deer hunting, in place of regular slugs.Ed.