I agree that both the Kimber pistols and rifles are top shelf for production guns. I have been wanting a Kimber Eclipse Custom II for a long time, but it's a lot of cash to spend right now (diapers are EXPENSIVE!). I've heard from a reliable source that Kimber had a bit of a problem with reliability issues with the compact version II pistols when they first came out, but I'm sure they've resolved the problem by now.

Mike

More hearsay ..yes the builders from Oregon went bankrupt and some of their gunsmiths started cooper arms. You can surf the internet and read the rest of the story. The old kimber did not build rifles as well designed and of consistent quality as these that is for sure. Old Kimber LA rifles have very inconsistent quality..you could not give them to me. BTW I had a matched pair of Oregon Kimbers in my hands 10 years ago and I could have easily purchased them one was a laminated stock 338 and the other a 270..Same guy had a Dakota 76 in 270 ... Comparing workmanship the closest comparism would be a Kia vs Bentley and I am not being fair to the Bentley. Hopefully they refined their skills at Cooper.. because I have heard plenty of trash about their early products as well.

My .308 Montana is light, but its accuracy has been very disappointing. I have to work my tail off to get 1.5 MOA, which is strange for something with match barrel, match trigger, pillar bedding, etc.

Both of my box stock Model 70s get sub MOA, and both of them together cost less than the Kimber.

I love Kimber pistols but until they allow +P loads in their pistols I don't think any of the other manafactures have anything to worry about.

Not to strange considering the gun weighs less then 6 lbs it should have some fierce recoil. I would have someone else shoot it and if so send it back to them. BTW your lucky to have model 70's that shoot submoa. They probably weigh 2 lbs or more then the MOntana.