.243 vs. 30-30
05-20-2005 | 01:36 PM
#81
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
From: SW Virginia
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
give me a break, I aint never said anything remotely close to what your saying
I got to go along with DoeDumper. Maybe it ain't what you're trying to say, but sure is the way you're coming across!
BTW, with all this VELOCITY stuff you've been talking about, how come you hunt with
a 30/30? You're a confusing fella' there, Zrex
05-20-2005 | 01:55 PM
#82
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,471
Likes: 0
From:
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
This is a pretty funny thread.. I might point out that the 30/30 has been elevated to the status of a dangerous game rifle only on this thread. Maybe for the conditions the original poster said would a 30/30 equal a 243 in effectivness . An aquaintance of mine had a Sako finwolf in 243 winchester and used it in a heavily wooded area in NY state. He loved that gun and its effectivness on deer. Had he sat on the edge of a field or right away somewhere he would have been right at home as well. In my mind a 30/30 is a 150 yard gun no more no less. In varying terrain the 243 can be used at 300 yards easily on deer. Some people use it on larger game and I will bet that more 243's kill Elk every fall then do 30/30's. On average it is a better overall deer cartridge. What would be wrong in using a 243 on black bear . On the east coast its a short range prop anyway and with the correct bullet it will work long or short. Drop figures on ballistic tables don't lie when the range exceeds rock throwing.
05-20-2005 | 01:55 PM
#83
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,695
Likes: 0
From: Texas
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
Arrrrrgggghhhhhh ! Heres my last response.
I'm not saying that velocity alone is better, a 220 swift is not a moose gun !
I have always mentioned energy in my statements. A smaller bullet can have more killing power than a bigger bullet if pushed fast enough to exceed the bigger bullet in energy.
If you cant understand why a 150 gr 30-06 is more powerfull than a 335 gr .50 caliber muzzle loader then your never gonna get it. Sigh.......
I'm not saying that velocity alone is better, a 220 swift is not a moose gun !
I have always mentioned energy in my statements. A smaller bullet can have more killing power than a bigger bullet if pushed fast enough to exceed the bigger bullet in energy.
If you cant understand why a 150 gr 30-06 is more powerfull than a 335 gr .50 caliber muzzle loader then your never gonna get it. Sigh.......
05-21-2005 | 02:11 PM
#86
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 26,323
Likes: 0
From: WC FL
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
BC, lets make it 10 pages. You don't like the Turdy-Turdy?
You know, I have killed more hogs, deer and gators with the Win 03-30
than any other rifle I have own. I'm like everyone else, got to try something
different. As I grew older and started going out of state and out of country,
I started the collection. Now I have 49 long guns and 8 hand guns. And
I still chase hogs with the 30-30 Win "carbine" in the swamps. Man you
ought to see what them PMC 150gr "Star Fires" do to a hog.
You know, I have killed more hogs, deer and gators with the Win 03-30
than any other rifle I have own. I'm like everyone else, got to try something
different. As I grew older and started going out of state and out of country,
I started the collection. Now I have 49 long guns and 8 hand guns. And
I still chase hogs with the 30-30 Win "carbine" in the swamps. Man you
ought to see what them PMC 150gr "Star Fires" do to a hog.
05-21-2005 | 04:28 PM
#88
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From:
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
ORIGINAL: Virginia7
Huh??? Say what?
Zrex, I think you're fixated/obsessed with velocity, and looking at the temporary wound cavities which can be quite large - and yes, generally get larger with higher velocities (but, not always). That's okay. There's those that adhere to the high velocity school, and others that like larger calibers/projectile mass. There's so many theories on killing power out there that you could argue this stuff for years - and never come to a conclusion that all can agree on.
I sometimes like to think of it this way; would you rather get hit with a baseball going
90mph, or a bowling ball going 50mph. For sure, if that dang bowling ball goes thru ya'
it's going to leave a bigger hole in ya'.
Generally, greater mass/bullet weight equates to better penetration (momentum involved here). Push it faster, and all the better, but velocity and energy ain't everything. If it were, heck, we might could use a 220Swift for pachyderms.
There was one theory I came across that held bigger bullets at low/moderate velocity killed better due to the time the projectile spent in the quarry/target. Sort of the opposite of all that hydrostatic shock stuff.
In the end, probably just best to go with what has been proven to work best by those
who do the most shooting/hunting. The 30/30 has been knocking off deer and black bears (and bigger stuff, too) for a lot longer than I've been around, and I suspect it will keep doing so long after you and I are gone.
I'm not knocking the 243Win., but within 150yds., I'll put my trust in a bigger, heavier bullet, thank you very much.
BTW, folks that get gut shot with a 45ACP - they very often die! Check out any study of
law enforcement weapons, stopping powers, etc.
Huh??? Say what?
Zrex, I think you're fixated/obsessed with velocity, and looking at the temporary wound cavities which can be quite large - and yes, generally get larger with higher velocities (but, not always). That's okay. There's those that adhere to the high velocity school, and others that like larger calibers/projectile mass. There's so many theories on killing power out there that you could argue this stuff for years - and never come to a conclusion that all can agree on.
I sometimes like to think of it this way; would you rather get hit with a baseball going
90mph, or a bowling ball going 50mph. For sure, if that dang bowling ball goes thru ya'
it's going to leave a bigger hole in ya'.
Generally, greater mass/bullet weight equates to better penetration (momentum involved here). Push it faster, and all the better, but velocity and energy ain't everything. If it were, heck, we might could use a 220Swift for pachyderms.
There was one theory I came across that held bigger bullets at low/moderate velocity killed better due to the time the projectile spent in the quarry/target. Sort of the opposite of all that hydrostatic shock stuff.
In the end, probably just best to go with what has been proven to work best by those
who do the most shooting/hunting. The 30/30 has been knocking off deer and black bears (and bigger stuff, too) for a lot longer than I've been around, and I suspect it will keep doing so long after you and I are gone.
I'm not knocking the 243Win., but within 150yds., I'll put my trust in a bigger, heavier bullet, thank you very much.
BTW, folks that get gut shot with a 45ACP - they very often die! Check out any study of
law enforcement weapons, stopping powers, etc.
Hate to say it but momentum=energy!!! Therefore, if the 243 has more energy that dang little bullet has more momentum also!!! I understand that the 30-30 would be very good in tight brush but if both bullets hold together and dissipate all energy, the 243 wins in the damage department.
05-21-2005 | 04:51 PM
#89
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 26,323
Likes: 0
From: WC FL
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
zrex, I never said the .243 would'nt kill a hog. I have killed hogs with a head
shot .22Mag. I know better than that. I have a Ruger Mk77 SS "lam" Stock
.243 and have killed deer and hogs with it.
Those are good looking hogs, wish you the best of luck in the future.
shot .22Mag. I know better than that. I have a Ruger Mk77 SS "lam" Stock
.243 and have killed deer and hogs with it.
Those are good looking hogs, wish you the best of luck in the future.
05-21-2005 | 06:30 PM
#90
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,474
Likes: 0
From: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
RE: .243 vs. 30-30
If I had an angry Griz in front of me and had the choice between the 243 with its speedy 100 grain bullet and the 45-70 with it slow 1400 fps 500 grain bullet, Give me the slow one. Same given the choice between the 243 and the 30-30 with its 170 grain bullet. Velocity does not equal momentum even though it is part of momentum. Velocity does not equal energy even though its part of it. If velocity is all you have, you are in trouble.