Dnk

Dan, do you remember the discrepancy between the old and new Gold tip shafts? It was last year at your place. I suspect the difference has to do with the older thinner shafts.

awshucks

Yeah, but I have it reversed in my memory, the new ones are the thinner and lighter. Think it's 1.1 gr per inch diff and .007" on OD. I think the old miked .345" and the new .338" by dial calipers.

Moonkryket

I haven't visited this site for a while.............................man!

Excalibur Dude

Hi All,

For the record, our crossbows will shoot as advertised...I know since I helped Bill shoot every crossbow model with various arrow/string setups. We did all testing inside using our chronograph. Our results are posted here:

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/demo/m/content/article.php?content_id=132

It's true that the crossbow will not shoot at advertised speedwith the standard Excel string but it sure will with the Dyna Flight string. And for those interested the reason we do not sell the crossbows with the Dyna Flight string is to help prevent damage if a new user happens to dry fire his crossbow.

There is always talk about crossbows not shooting as advertised (not just ours BTW), remember there are many variables including chronographs. We work hard at publishing realistic numbers for our crossbowsperformance figures and don't make this stuff up.

Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Peter Balfour
Excalibur Crossbow Inc.
519-740-6890

GrumpyTom

I think that you need to rethink what you said above. In my statement I said that Excalibur uses Regular Hunting Arrows in their speed readings. As a regular hunting arrow, That is an arrow which can be safely used and not under their recomended safety standards. The fact that they do not personally sell an arrow at that weight does not really matter, the fact is there are plenty of people that can build and sell them all the time. I bet I could contact more then a few different people on the internet and in a very short while have that weight arrow on the way to me if I want it. I bet if you even searched well enough you could find a store or two that sold arrows like that.

Now there are bow companies that use arrows to achieve arrow speeds that are under their min. safety weight restrictions. I can remember reading that these companies would actually print that if they used those arrows for hunting, not only would they risk injury and damage to their bows, but their warranty would be void. Now this is totally deceiving!

As the dude said above, there are many variables in achieving arrow speeds. Now only does the string (type of) matter, it's brace height, arrow weight, type of fletch and most importantly the crono itself could be reading wrong. And I do like a company that sells their products with the safety in mind of the bow and purchaser. The standard string will not get those speeds, but they are more safe for the first timer or novice. If a mistake occures with these strings (more stretch in this string), there are likly less dammage to the bow or the shooter. A dryfire with this string and more then likely there will be no damage. If my memory is correct, it was reported that they dry fired, on purpose, over 30 times with this string and no damage (I believe with the 175 or 200lb bow).They have always stated that the shooter will need the faster strings to obtain the faster speeds.

Now I am not telling you how to do business but if your statement of that you could sell more Ten Points & Excaliburs if they sold that weight arrow, then I would be either building my own at that weight or getting them from someone else to include with the bows. It would probually raise the profit margin as well . BTW, that weight of arrow with an Excalibur is not on the ragged edge of a dry fire. They can be shot and shot and shot because they are within their safety margin, put forth by them. With your thinking, I believe that your confusing them with the companies that use arrows which are under the safety margins for their speed tests.

Wyvern Crossbow

"The fact that they do not personally sell an arrow at that weight does not really matter"

Yes, it does...I never said they would not shoot what they claim with the weight arrow and string upgrade. My issue is that the little asterix and the fact that you cant buy the components from the factory is an issue. If you went to buy a car that claimed 400HP and you found out that the only way to achieve that is to go to a speed shop and add on a bunch of aftermarket parts you would be pretty ticked. That is the issue here. The factory arrows are 370gr with a 100gr tip (just weighed one) By your chart the Phoenix shoots 288fps with that arrow. Can custom arrows be made? Yes, but I can pick up a factory package from other manufacturers and shoot what they claim. It just makes for more explaination to the customer so he does not go home and shoot thru a chrono and call back thinking something is wrong with his bow and then get ticked that it shoots 20fps slower than it is advertised. Dry fire is not an issue at 350gr I agree, but it is listed as the "minimum" you should shoot. All I am saying is that if they are going to list these speeds then supply the arrows that can do it. If not, list the speeds you can get with the factory arrow. If people want more speed I will be happy to make 350gr arrows, but the speeds listed should be what you can get with the 370gr arrows that come from the factory. You can ask anyone who has inquired about a TenPoint recurve from me that I state upfront that it will not shoot what they claim. I am not bashing Excals bows here, just the speed numbers that people are looking at when they go to buy the bow.

Wyvern

coyote170

You were up front with me when I bought my Curve,I knew at the
get go what to expect,appreciated the stats you sent with the bow!

Moonkryket

And to think................I shoot 481 grain Power Bolt arrows in my Vortex:-) For hunting, especially with a heavy limbed recurve crossbow, I see no practical advantageingoing with extremely light weight arrows in an effort to get a few more fps. Too bad that so much importance is put on gaining speed at the expense of shootability, vibration, accuracy in somecases and noise.

Where speed is a priority, like hunting situations around fieldswhere it's likely to get longer shots, I'll go with a crossbow designed to shoot 350 fps with a 425 grain arrow.................not a 350 grain arrow.

Dnk

I guess you've never hear the name Weatherby. Highly successful at marketing his rifles spitting out ultra high speed bullets! Flattest shooting with less margin for error. It's the America's "need for speed" and the marketing that satisfies it! Marketing + speed = sales. It's a mentality that won't quit. Sad but true. I think many will buy the bow that shoots a lighter arrow because it will apparently shoot flatter and leave you with less margin for error. I have two chronagraphs but I don't use them to find out how fast my arrows are out of my bows for hunting purposes because I don't care.

Moonkryket

I know speed sells :-) In the face of that, I stillthink Excal should market its recurvecrossbows differently becase they do not have a speed edge competing with compound crossbows unless they use extemely light weight arrows that I, and lots of other crossbow hunters, will not hunt with.

Excal's recurve crossbows shoot heavy hunting arrows with "authority" :-) For example, going from a 425 grain arrow to a 480 grain arrow in a compound crossbow will likely result in 25 fps in speed loss. A 200 lb draw Excal will lose only approximatley 12 fps by adding the same 55 grains to the arrow weight. With that in mind, I think Excal should always be touting its crossbows as great crossbows for shooting heavy hunting arrows. Even the speed fanatics can't argue with KE and penetration power. Another plus for this concept is that Excals shoot so much smoother and quieter with fantastic accuracy with heavy hunting arrows. I believe if Excal's marketing materials and salesbrochurespresented this angle rather than the silly 350 grain arrow speed angle, it would certainly not hurt their sales and many crossbow hunterswouldsee the heavy arrow logic as a real advantage.