Hotburn76

DNK, When I said act like an Indian In my mind the original americans were and are the only true hard core archers. And by this I mean you have to be at one with nature to be sucessful like they were with their tools. Me, I don't want to practice every day to keep my skills up. I enjoy practicing, but not all the time. I just love going out and sitting in the woods. I pass on deer all the time because my type of hunting is enjoying nature and being alone in the woods, Not the challenge of the equipment. If when I said Indian I offended anyone I apologize for that I was just trying to say that in my mind their old method would be the most work to be sucessful.

JLmoore1956

Yes DJH would have my vote. It is what I have been saying, doesnt matter whether you hunt with a rifle, or bow, or MZL or crossbow of blow gun, as HUNTERS we need to stand side by side against the antis for all HUNTERS to enjoy hunting they way they prefer. THe antis are winning here, and if they can keep a wedge driven between the bow and Crossbow, then they might eventually be able to drive one between the rifle and the MZL or rifle against traditional archery...... cant people see that this argument is hurting the sport?

I mean yes I am over here fighting for freedom and our Liberties and the right to do as we want...... but we are only hurting each other! [&:]

HuntandFish

JLMoore1956

Crossbows are illegal in NY. There is 1 exception. If you aredisabled, to the point that you are unable to wiggle your finger enough to pull a trigger, you may use a crossbow modified with a breath tube. Hows that for a restriction?

I have the Modified Archer Permit, but can't use a crossbow. Tried the DrawLoc, but it isn't a good match for my disability. No archery hunting for me, until the law changes.

Dnk

Hotburn76, I guess I did not do a good job of saying that I wasn't baiting you or trying to give you a hard time.... any how I just have never heard that expression before and did not understand what you were saying. You did not offend me at all. I can't see anyone insulted, I saw that it wasn't an insult so I wouldn't worry about it. I wish I could hunt and live in the woods like the North American Natives did in the old days before we screwed up their lives. Wouldn't have to go to the office, no taxes, hunt and fish any time (sometimes just to get away from the family), fart when ever ya want, stable gas prices, no junk mail.... wonder if they had beer??????

Arthur P

Now that Pope and Young has caved in to demand from the high tech compound crowd on their letoff rule, there is nothing standing in the way of crossbows. P&Y has no credibility now on the issue. PBS has never had any credibility. IMO, today's compounds have performance and ease of use practically identical to crossbows - if not surpassing them.

How can someone shooting a 99% letoff compound with a mechanical release have anything negative to say about a crossbow that isn't also applicable to his stuff?

In the days when compounds were mostly shot with fingers, letoffs were no greater than 65% and with arrow speeds well under 250 fps, I think there were enough differences to justify keeping crossbows segregated out of bow seasons. That is no longer the case.

Being first and foremost a traditional bowhunter, I'm no more in favor of allowing crossbows in bow season than I ever was. It's just that I feel if we have to accept the compound in it's current state, then there is no reason to keep crossbows at bay any longer.

And, frankly, if I'm shooting anything but a recurve, longbow or selfbow, I'd just rather be shooting a crossbow than a high tech compound with all the gadgetry.

DJH -------

[blockquote]Many have stated that bowhunters have fought long and hard to get the long seasons they now enjoy. The also claim that those unwilling to put the time and effort in required to shoot a real bow don’t belong in the woods. Those folks have it all wrong! [/blockquote]
[blockquote]Most of those boys picking up the crossbow were hunting while a lot of the screamers were still in diapers. They helped obtain those seasons, but are now unable to hunt them due to aging bodies that can no longer draw back a vertical bow. To turn your back on those who have been soldiers for the cause is not only selfish, it’s irresponsible. The longer bow seasons have been set up to help the state game management agencies control the deer herd. But hunting for big bucks, has seemed to slow that process as well. There is plenty of room for more hunters out there![/blockquote]

JLmoore1956

DJH: agree with you all the way, I was around in 1970s with the controversay kicked off, and you are right these are the ones who fought and now the sometimes, i say sometimes righteous bowhunters are hurting us more then helping...... as I said PETA is laughing about it I am sure! [&:]

Arthur P

And the reverse argument to that, JL, is that crossbow hunters are hurting us by trying to force their way into a place they KNOW they're not wanted. Fingers pointing both ways and barking at each other like two warring packs of dogs, THAT'S what's hurting us!

It's the childish remarks being aimed at bowhunters by the crossbow contingent - words like 'selfish, self-righteous' - that strengthen the resolve of those fighting you. Quit the foolish name calling. You'll make much more ground just focusing on the similarities between crossbows and compounds.

Some stranger comes to your door, cussing and raising hell withyou becauseyou won't lethim into your house. Are you going to invitehim in or grabyour gun? The same person comes along. He introduces himself and is polite and friendly. Are you going to grab the gun or invite him in?Same deal here. Bow season is OUR house. You want in? Then be nice, make yourself acquainted and be friendly. Unfortunately, the opportunity to make that first impression is long past. It started off with the cuss fight and it hasn't let up since.

It's the crossbow contingent that started the war. It's up to you guys to make peace. What have you been doing in those states where the crossbow has recently been accepted? You've been loudly proclaiming victory over bowhunters. Very ungracious victors, the whole lot of you. Now you're in a season where a great many of the guys in the woods would just as soon shoot you as the deer. Not very smart. Not a very good way to prep the bowhunters next state on the list. You're perpetuating the anger and strengthening your opposition.

Argue your case intelligently and logically with facts, not emotion. Emotions are dividing. Facts are simply facts. Instead of getting into a bare knuckles brawl with someone, wouldn't you rather have him in a position where all he can do issay, "Dang. Never thought of it that way." The ones who respond onlywith emotion... disregard them. They are limited intellectually and therefore are no concern. (Which is another reason to keep emotion out of your argument. See?)

You can point out the relative ancientry of crossbows when compared to compounds. Which would be a better fit into what is supposed to be a primitive season - a weapon who has been with mankind since well before Christianity? Or a mechanical contrivance that has only been around for less than 40 years? (Of course, you'll have to hold back on the fact that most crossbows now are compound crossbows. Shhhh! )

I've removed myself from the battle. All I can do is give you my insight as a long time opponent of crossbows. It's up to you guys how you use it. You can make things easier and the future brighter, or you can maintain the battlefield tactics and wind up sharing the woods with enemies, leavingemotional wounds that maybe, in another generation or two,will have healed over.

I think the crossbow will soon be fully acceptedmost everywhere, regardless. It's simply a matter of whether it will be a mostly friendly transition or not that will tell you what kind of future you'll have.

JLmoore1956

For one, never hunted with a crossbow...... what offended me is telling me, like in New York I have to disagree with crossbows if I want to be a member of the New York bowhunters. I am over here in IRaq and have defended our freedoms too many times to see someone eliminated for shooting a crossbow. I have hunted with a bow since the 70s and Arthur P, many compound users did the same thing in the early 70s, been there and saw it! And you are right, the crossbow users shouldnt be hollering at the bow users...... it works both ways. All I am saying is the continued argument rather then sitting down and talking is what is hurting us..... the in-fighting.[:@]

Arthur P

I've hunted with a bow since the 50's, so I've seen a little more of it than you have.

All the bowhunting organizations have an anti-crossbow plank in their constitutions; if not specific, it's at leastimplied. They either started out with such a policy or instituted one after the battle was joined. Even our local club had an anti-crossbow rule. I got that rule changed so one of the local SCA kingdoms could have an archerytournament at our range.

I had to get the officers to shoot my crossbow. Invariably, after shooting it a few times, their response was "Who would want to hunt with a piece of s*#t like that?!"

Granted, my Barnett Wildcat ain't in the same league as an Excalibur Exomag, but it's still a crossbow. They expected a whole lot more than what they actually got. I think they really came away somewhat disappointed by the experience. But they had no problem with changing our anti-crossbow policy afterwards.

Clubs change from the inside out. So, join the club. Work to change the rules you don't like. That's howdemocracy works and clubs are a democracy. Surely you haven't fought to defend something you won't participate in?

Arguments change from the inside out too. A lot of the time two side have been going at it and one side suddenly realizes... "Hey! They're right!" But the argument has been going on hot and heavy for so long that they feel foolish admitting they've been wrong. Given half a chance to save face and not look foolish, they finally agree.

I'm not saying the bow side has been wrong forever. I'm saying through advances in compound technology that matters have changed. Most have not yet recognized that fact, or are unwilling to admit it because it will make them look foolish for continuing the argument. Given half a chance to save face....