<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I hear and read this stuff over and over and over again dealing with speed and misjudged yardage and I really hate it. It's the number one reason most people say they shoot the light arrows... Extra speed will make up for misjudged yardage. <font size=4>Every time I hear that, I cringe. I smell the pungent stench of poor hunting ethics.</font id=size4> <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

You can't be trying very hard when you start a thread off by basically calling a major portion of the bowhunters out there(including myself) slobs for shooting light arrows that help with mistakes made during yardage estimation.<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

I wrote it, I meant it and I stand by it. Now, if you'd care to read the post in it's entirety and not take things out of context, maybe you'd understand what I actually said.

silentassassin....I AM YOUR IDOL, ADMIT IT, I HAVE MORE BOOK BUCKS ON MY WALL THAN YOU COULD EVER HOPE TO. ALL THE WHILE CHANTING...&quot;WOLFEN68 IS THE BEST, WOLFEN68 IS THE BEST...!!!&quot; BAWAHAHAHAH<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>


<font color=red>**Edited for content</font id=red>

Edited by - PABowhntr on 09/16/2002 10:06:58

I am almost afraid to jump into this one!<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> I don`t need one of those right before the season starts.
First, I think I know what ArthurP is trying to get across here, and I agree with him.
As with many of us on this board, I have been hunting with archery gear since before the compound was invented. So I have heard it said countless times by people who are less than knowledgable on the subject, or who are just plain old BS`ers that their one pin can hit out to 30 yards and beyond without holding higher, thus making a faster bow the way to go for hunting.
Until two years ago, I averaged shooting at least one hundred arrows a day, every day of the year. I add that little tidbit of information to hopefully lend some credence to my next statement.
If your bow is shooting Easton ACE`s at 315fps and you are sighted in dead on at 20 yds., if you hold your 20yd. pin dead on at 30yds., you WILL hit roughly 3 inchs low. Slow your bow down to the 285-290 range, now you will hit roughly 4&quot; low.
So, all the speed in the world cannot make up for gross misjudgements in yardage.
High speed can help on a yardage miss of a couple yards at close range, at 50yds, if you misjudge by 3yds., you got trouble.
If you are 10 yards off at 50 yds., you just completely missed the intended target.(which is much better than the alternative on live game!)
I am not saying that speed is a bad thing, I shoot my hunting rigs at around 285fps.
Several people have stated that we should practice yardage judging much more than most of us do. I agree completely.
Bowfanatic states that some people just plain suck at it. He is 100% right.
I have shot in 3-d tournaments on a local and national level for many years, and have enjoyed some success from time to time. But even with me shooting all those 3-d`s, I still don`t trust myself to judge yardage in the timber, with shadows and other things to mess me up. Before laser rangefinders I would step off yardage to different reference points around my stand. Now I simply zap them with my rangefinder.
I am NOT implying that everyone should use a rangefinder, some people are much better than me at judging distance. Everyone should be honest with themselves on whether they need to do something besides just looking and judging.
Everyone should also be honest about their limitations of how far they should shoot, too! I can put 3 arrow volleys inside of a softball size circle at 50yds. on my worst day. Much tighter on average, but I would be hard pressed to take a shot over 30yds. I actually can`t remember the last time I took one over 26 yds.
But again, that is me, many of you may feel extremely confident shooting further.

Stealthy, I agree that when mech. heads first came out, the vast majority of people using them were simply looking for a bandaid for poor bow tuning.
While I don`t use them myself, I do check out the new ones, and I believe that alot of guys use them responsibly, out of well tuned rigs nowadays!

silentassassin, I am pretty much of an old fashioned guy, I`m not into most of this newfangled stuff. However, I really think we should look into some of those anger management classes.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

I'll take em fast and flat everytime. If I am off by 5 yards say at 35 yards I will still get a nice kill shot even if it was 40 yards. I am not making an excuse but mistakes happen and a faster setup allows me that small error and that just suits me fine.

Brian

Well, if not being able to judge yardage to within a yard or so, shooting fast bows, light arrows, and one pin to 30 yards makes me an unethical hunter....so be it. I've been called a lot worse by a lot better,lol. No skin off my nose. I'm happy, my belly is full of a nice venison roast, I have meat in the freezer, and didn't do anything illegal to get it there.... I think I done did good<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Those who wish to appear wise among fools, among the wise seem foolish.
Marcus Fabius Quintilianus (35 AD - 100 AD)

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Everyone should also be honest about their limitations of how far they should shoot, too! I can put 3 arrow volleys inside of a softball size circle at 50yds. on my worst day. Much tighter on average, but I would be hard pressed to take a shot over 30yds. I actually can`t remember the last time I took one over 26 yds. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Big Country - nice post!

I think by the sounds of it, you're a better shot than I am. I've had a couple hundred shot opportunities, and so far the longest I've taken has been about 23 yards. I can imagine being tempted into a longer shot, but so far this is the furthest that I've taken. I think it's because of a combination of preferring close shots, where I know it's a dead deer and always thinking I can get a deer a little closer if it's still too far out. I also tend to hunt very thick cover, where longer shots just don't exist. My average shot has probably been 7-10 yards. How much practice and distance judging do you need for those? Not much, but I do it anyway.

Slo-bo, we're not alone. There are lots of guys shooting one pin using the same technique we do. It's very effective. In my opinion, most would be better off having to make no pin decisions under the pressure of a hunting shot. A lot of guys who do not use sights, use a gap method of aiming. They put a certain distance between the tip of the arrow and the target, depending upon distance. Using one pin is very similar, except the pin is easier to see and the gap is much smaller.

And I've been called worse than a fool by a lot better than you. So far, I've been called silly, foolish, anti-hunting, PETA and various other names even less kind that haven't come out on the screen, I'm sure. All because I've asked for less emphasis to be put on the misjudged yardage aspect of shooting speed.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

Once more.... Talking about covering your butt in case of accidently misjudging yardage by a couple of yards is one thing. Saying you shoot light and fast because you can't judge yardage... THAT is what I'm talking about being unethical.

Stealth_Force had the best comment of all about it when he said:

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>FACT, Speed DOES make up for missed yardage.....as long as your somewhat close to start with. IF you can shoot a fast bow accurately,your yardage judging becomes LESS critical. NOT UN-critical, but still....LESS critical. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Less critical, certainly, but within 30 yards where most bowhunting shots are taken, not to any great degree. Further shots, 30-40 yards, precise estimation gets even more critical. Further than that, 40-60 yards, you've got to be right on the money with either a 300 fps arrow or a 150 fps arrow. Factor in the 'archers minute of angle accuracy' of 1&quot; per every 10 yards, there is no margin of error on the long stuff.

[Deleted by Admins]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Less critical, certainly, but within 30 yards where most bowhunting shots are taken, not to any great degree. Further shots, 30-40 yards, precise estimation gets even more critical. Further than that, 40-60 yards, you've got to be right on the money with either a 300 fps arrow or a 150 fps arrow. Factor in the 'archers minute of angle accuracy' of 1&quot; per every 10 yards, there is no margin of error on the long stuff.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I think this is the most important statement made on this thread. Close range shots are not affected greatly by speed. The further out you are, the greater the importance of exact range estimation. If you do know the exact range, then speed is relatively unimportant, althought the ability to shoot very small groups at that range is.

The biggest reason I like a little extra speed over the slower set-ups, is to reduce the reaction time on a deer that &quot;jumps the string&quot;. I know that's a whole other discussion that we don't need to get into on this one. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>