It's getting too hard to go back and quote each question pertaining to my posts. I come back after eight hours and there's another ten pages.[]

BigJ12

Why you pointing your big finger at me for "people not reading your posts"? That wasn't me that made light of that!
You didn't play with the Broncos in 96 did you?

Oh , the Bears still suck!!![8D]


Data

You still haven't responded to my research question. The effects of compound use had nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

Lets try this...for those states that currently allow crossbows..

Pretend your state doesn't allow crossbows (except handicapped). Lets say your state sells 250,000 bowhunting licenses each year and bowhunters have an anual harvest of roughly 50,000 deer each year. Bowhunters also have the longest season for obvious reasons. Lets say your state sells 600,000 gun hunting licenses each year and the gun harvest is normally around 400,000. Your gun season is 9 days long. Adding the two harvests together gives you an anual harvest of 450,000 deer. Your deer herd is estimated at 1 million. Your game division has calculated that keeping the anual harvest rate slightly under half of the total estimated population will be good management , keeping the deer herd in check while offering plenty opportunities each year.

Now , pretend you ARE one of the game managers (DNR) in your state and for whatever reason you have to make a decision on where to put crossbows (crossbows were voted into use by all).
I would imagine in your decision process that you would take into account all possible effects it could have on the deer herd. The only current info you have to base your decision on is three states that dont have the same amount of hunters , the same size deer herd , the same monitoring/registering process , or the same herd estimation process.
Do you just toss it into the archery season?
Or do you put it into a seperate season to accurately monitor it's effects?

BOWFANATIC - are those real numbers ? Because we can pretend all we want with number. I can counter that by saying that with pretending the additional archery harvest will increase by 20,000 animals, which it likely wouldn't, and that 90% of those animals are taken by 2 season hunters, meaning that 18,000 tags are not going to be filled in rifle season (they were taken in archery instead)

No real impact then, is there ?

Does anyone want to make an honest attempt at answering my question?

Denver.

No, out of the league by then[&o]

I'm not sure who was the first, but I do remember you and others saying a couple of times "We are reading your posts" or something to that effect. I just thought it was funny and you were the only person I thought of at the time.

Not a big Bears fan either.

I will give it a shot.

Ok, yes you could create a separate season but I don't think you need to. All you have to do is have the personal at the check stations ask a few simple questions when a hunter is checking in his/her deer. Like, what type of bow did you use?

The Illinois DNR has been doing this for years. during gun season you are asked what type of weapon you used. They also ask if you have seen other types of animals while hunting and if you have had any problems with other hunters.

By doing this you can have all of the different bows in the same season and still keep track. You will also avoid the problems and bad blood that I think everybody here can agree would come to light if the bowhunters season was cut to.....gasp! allow in crossbow hunters.

Doesn't that sound like a better option?

Example 1.My fatherinlaw. Bow hunted till the years of physical labor took toll on his body.In late 40's couldnt pull a bow back anymore.Couldnt get permit for crossbow so just gun hunted till he passed away.Here is a guy who hunted his whole life and because he got older his deer season is cut down to 20 days.He told me many times if he could use a crossbow that would be great to get in the woods during archery.In NY it isnt easy getting a permit.You have to be major disabled to qualify.

Example 2.My wife.Weighs in soaking wet at 85 pounds.She shoots 3-4 times a week but still cant get to a min. draw weight of 35 pounds.She helps me scout,put up tree stands,and wants to hunt.We are working with a pro shop to get her strengh up but we have been working at it for 2 years.Not many people have that patience.

Example 3.My kids.All possible future voters and future hunters but unfortuante for them built like their mom.They have a huge love for the outdoors now but what does the future hold?With numbers of hunters leaving and not recruiting what is lost where will bow hunting be in 30 years?You might not be here but what about your kids?

Before its said yes my wife could gun hunt if she wanted.She doesnt enjoy guns and is nervous being in the woods in gun season.Gun season up in western NY is an experince in itself.

mdbllung
your fatherinlaws seasion was cut down BY his own meens.You do not have to KILL some thing to get to hunt. Did he even try to get the xbow permit? Most older guys are TO prowed to even try to get the permit.

My wife started out shooting 28 # took her 2 years to get to hunt.BUT she hunted with me anyway allmost every trip.When she could shoot the 45#s she had allredy learned a very big amount about bow hunting. So the TIME SPENT IN THE WOODS WITHOUT A BOW HELPED A TON. Now 14 years latter my wife shoots 55#s and has killed an elk with her bow.

My sone is 4 years old I teach him every day about some thing in the outdoors.I do not beleave for 1 sec if he cant kill an elk befor he is stroung enough to BOW hunt he will ever stop LOVEING the out doors.

I do not get it, if all people worie about is killing a deer GO TO A DANG FARM. Bow hunting is way more than just geting to KILL a deer. All the xbow guys are saying the boy can hunt!!!!! THIS IS CRAP MY BOY IS ONLY 4 YEARS OLD AND HE HUNTS WITH ME VERY CHANCE I CAN GO.My son at 4 has seen 3 elk killed so far in his life,and every one was bow shot :}

Thanks for your honest opinion!

Although I disagree. Here's why...

Having a "questionare"(<so to speak) on what type of weapon used would not be 100% fool proof. There are many reasons why someone could/would just say they used a longbow or compound when they used a crossbow (hunting contests,bravado,etc.) It would have to be just a questionare too , since all types of bows are allowed. Anything more than just a questionare? Then your opening up a can of worms that the WIDNR would just close in a hurry! Too many budget cuts in WI. (cost of CWD,etc.etc.etc.)

To get a true handle on what effects of allowing crossbows during archery season would have on the deer harvests for each individual state , you'd have to first get an accurate grasp on the participation and harvest percentages. The only way to do that would be to start a crossbow season.
Yes! Bowhunters will complain anyway. Why? Selfishness. They dont want to give up any of their season. I dont feel that way. I'd be happy to give up some of my season for a new weapon. I'd probably (NO I WOULD) buy a crossbow and join the crossbow season myself.
If we have a few seasons for the crossbow and it shows no negative effects on the length of everyones hunting seasons , and the majority of your states hunters are all for it , then by all means let their be one season.
If we were to just go ahead and allow crossbows for anyone in our four month season , right off the bat , and the participation and harvest percentage was big enough to do damage to our deer herd , then everyone would be complaining.
It's kind of like sticking your foot in the water to see how cold it is before just jumping in.

What do you think?

These are very valid points please take the time to read them. I highlighted a part of particular interest. (I hope you don't mind Mdbllung)

With all of this talk about deer herds (with the exception on a few states) on the rise, not many have talked about hunters on the decline. Why would you want to deny or limit an opportunity to get more people into hunting. By saying crossbows should be illegal or only in their own sepatate season, how are you helping future bow hunters? It dosen't bother you that you may loose potential hunters by forcing them to use a compond, recurve or long bow? Especially in the circumstances listed above?


A guy does nothing but bow hunts his ENTIRE life until he can no longer pull back the string on his compound, long or recurve bow. So he goes looking for what?? A CROSSBOW!! If crossbows are SOOO different from "archery" why do they buy them? Just to extend their season? Why not just pick up the old trusty rifle or slug gun and head into the woods during gun season?

Why? Because those old hunters know it's still bow hunting. And it allows them the opportunity to continue to hunt the exact same way they always have. I will say it again, NOTHING about the HUNT changes. The weapon changes but the hunt does not! It's the same because all of the varaibles are the same it's just the weapon that's different. The range is the same, the stalk is the same, the type of projectile is the same, it's propelled the same, the thrill of having an animal so close you can hear them breathing or eating or snorting is the same.

Why do you think the handicapped choose the crossbow over a gun? Because the HUNT is different! They want to be able to BOW HUNT. You think they choose a less powered weapon with a drastically shorter effective range from a firearm because they think it's all the same??? No, because it's bow hunting. They are bow hunting.

Think about that the next time some of you say crossbows should be in gun season or are not bows.

I think you are starting to sound more like someone seeing our side.

Seriously.....I agee 100% with you and I mean 100% There will probably be those who would lie about their choice of weapon, I don't think enough to make a difference in the stats but you are correct to say in order to be 100% sure you need to separate the season. I also agree that bow hunters will complain and again with their reasons for doing so "selfishness"

We don't have to agree on "is a crossbow a bow" when we agree on the other things you listed. At that point it would not matter.


I also agree with you here as well. I would not want to hurt a herd just to introduce a new weapon. I am not sure if your theory would work but it's the best one I have heard so far and I would go along with it.