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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
Feel free to stop me when I'm wrong here ok? A crossbow and a compound bow.... both have limbs So does a recurve both have cams Correct both have cables Correct both have strings So does a recurve both store their energy in the limbs So does a recurve both use the string to propel the projectile So does a recurve both have sights (including scopes) Wrong! Sight is optional both use a trigger to release the string Wrong! optional on compound both use an arrow/bolt Wrong! One uses arrow. One uses bolt. both have basically the same effective range Correct both have a measureable A to A So does a recurve both have a measureable power stroke So does a recurve both have a brace height So does a recurve both use something to rest the arrow on So does a recurve both use string wax So does a recurve both have a served string So does a recurve both can have a quiver attached So can a recurve both you need to watch the wind while hunting Same as a recurve both you need to cover your sent Same as with guns both you need to scout to find where the deer are moving so a close shot can be had Obvious both you need to quietly get into your stand or ground blind Obvious both you need to watch your movement As with any weapon one has a stock and the other dosen't Bingo! one stays cocked and the other dosen't Double Bingo! one you can use a rest and the other you can't Triple Bingo! And before anyone starts with the "the three differences are big differences" Let me tell you that none of the three have anything to do with the BASIC function and premise of how the weapon operates...only on how it is used. To me that is just not enough to dismiss them as bows. Ohh , and the differences pointed out ARE big enough differences to seperate the two into different seasons. What , did you think if you said "before anyone starts" that you'd have the last word with your opinion?:D |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
Well , the "BASIC function and premise of how the weapon operates" is different. One has a trigger which is the ONLY way to fire it. The other is fired by the release of the string! Remember , a trigger release is optional , not part of a compound bow!! You don't really need to cover your sent if you are shooting a 250yrd shot with a rifle do you? I know when I use my rifle for long coyote shots the last thing I am concerned about is my scent. And while you will find some compound shooters don't have sights most do. If you want to split hairs I guess a crossbow shooter dosen't need a sight and they could just shoot instinctively if they wanted to. Ohh , and the differences pointed out ARE big enough differences to seperate the two into different seasons. What , did you think if you said "before anyone starts" that you'd have the last word with your opinion? Man you guys really need help if I'm the guy thats helping your argument. Bowfanatic, I guess it come down to how much you think a stock, the ability to remain cocked and the ability to use a rest changes what the weapon is. I understand and like I said before I also have some reservations about those things. But if you just step back and look at the whole picture, ie: my list, I just can't see how anybody can think a crossbow is anything but a bow. Albeit a form of a bow, but it's still a bow. Now if you were to look at and list the differences between the compound bow and long bow you would see a huge difference in the components of the two. I know they both still are hand drawn and held but one you are holding the total weight and the other your not. There are compound bows out there that have a 99% let off. Hell for all intents and purposes you could hold that all day or at least as long as some one could hold up a heavy crossbow at the ready before getting tired. I already made the point about some compound bows you just cannot shoot with fingers. So how does a compound bow that you can hold at full draw as long as you want (99% let off) and only works with a trigger release as well as all the other bells and whistles listed in my other post compare to a long bow that only has a string? I don't know about you but I would think they would have just as strong an argument against compound bows as the compound bow users think they have against crossbows maybe even better, by stating that they are two completely different weapons even though they are both forms of bows. I'm just trying to get you to see the other side of the argument. It seems like the compound users (and I'm one of them) are all ok with whatever new gismo is sent to market to make their hunting life easier, but can't even comprehend the idea that their compound bows may be more crossbow like than they thought. |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
Nice try Silent! Thats why the 3d tourneys that do allow crossbows , make the crossbows use open sights and shoot standing up , off hand. Clue - They wont/dont hunt that way! Thats when the scopes and rests come in real handy. I have shot them and shot against them for years. The weapon itself just isn't that inherently accurate. Try shooting them or against them sometime and you'll see what I mean. Now don't get me wrong they are pretty accurate and they will shoot pretty good groups but they can't touch some of the 5 spot scores that good shooters shoot. The fact that they aren't allowed is more a factor of the elitism from the compounders that cringe when they see a crossbow much like the trad guys do when they see a compounder[&:] Silentassassin, I hate to tell you this, but by answering my thread after Datamax does, it kinda makes you look like your his little puppet. Now Im honestly not trying to offend you, well maybe just a little, but Im being honest. Maybe Im the only one to see it, and I know Ive done it for people in the past, but by ripping apart the same thread that someone else just ripped apart it makes you look silly. Im only telling you for your own good. Sorry. Back to the topic though...I actually see what your saying, have all along. But I just cant bring myself to say you're rig....you're ri....right. Not with the way you guys act about compounds. But you are...there I said it. Your right. Crossbows will have little if any effect on the archery season. However, you still cant convince me that its the same as drawing in the presence of an animal...you can sell that idea to the funny farm. Thats just plain non-sense. I hope you can admit that one too... I mean come on.....the thing is cocked. But the rest of the argument seems air-tight, and if its mainly women and children that will take up crossbows, then thats great. Do you really ever see people carrying crossbows in the states where its legal? Im afraid I wouldnt know how to react, and I might say something to offend them, or give them a look. God knows if I p-ss them off and they are insane, they could easily shoot me before I could get the bow drawn in defense. All they have to do is raise it and pull the trigger. I need to know if Im going to actually encounter any or many if its ever introduced. One has a trigger which is the ONLY way to fire it. The other is fired by the release of the string! Remember , a trigger release is optional , not part of a compound bow!! |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
ORIGINAL: bwhunter501 wow this thread is gettin pretty good......i might sit back and watch for awhile lol:D |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
What's really amazing is that 3 guys have kept this thing going for 85 freaking pages!!!!
I'm a hard headed SOB and I don't care if they start putting plutonium 238 on the ends of arrows, I want bowseason to be bowseason. No p@$$^ @$$ xbows, no draw locks, no arm rests, etc. and I'll never be convinced otherwise. |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
They start the longest and dumbest debates ever!!!!
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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
Just curious to how many states draw locks are legal in and are they the same ones the Xbows are too. Mattiac - I wish I was silent's puppet, you don't know how many big bucks he has on his wall, do you ?? Not with the way you guys act about compounds. But you are...there I said it. Your right. Crossbows will have little if any effect on the archery season. However, you still cant convince me that its the same as drawing in the presence of an animal But Im serious, you converted me. Not that Im gonna go out and buy a crossbow, and I still dont really like the idea, but if they try and introduce them, I wont fight it.... Do you really ever see people carrying crossbows in the states where its legal? Your arrogance has crossed that line seperating it from sickening to downright hilarious lies!!!! Honestly ........... Ferguson is a hell of a shot with his trick shots and stuff. I suppose he's dang good but don't know for sure. I've had people tell me G Fred Asbell aint much of a shot - so just 'cause you got a name in the trad world don't mean you're a fantastic shooter, you know ? Before I hurt my shoulder a few weeks back - seriously - I'd have shot against anyone, anytime. I was in a groove like I've never shot before. That wasn't responding to my question at all. Try again. S T E A L T H Y C A T It's really too bad our search function doesn't go back past one year. You know , back when the integrity of archery season was your concern. Then by golly, I shouldn't have to special order a set of 50-60lb limbs this year to accomodate my shoulder problems. They dont do anything anyway. Not when you ask data. Put a compound in his hands and every critter within 40yds is dead meat. |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
The great thing about this post, it will evntually end. 3 Guys will still feel crossbows are the same as bows, while the vast majority will see them as a seperate weapon. That's ok, you can get all of the people happy some of the time, you can get some of the people happy all of the time, but you absolutley can not make ALL of the people happy ALL of the time.
I believe that is the way with crossbows. Some of the states... 3 to be exact, allow them during archery season. Some allow them in their own season, most allow them during firearm season, and a few do not allow them at all. In the end guys, they've got this right. In some states they may not affect anything, like AR, and GA .. some states they could so they are only allowed in firearm season like NH, others can support their own season like Maryland. There is no 1 answer fits all. I don't think crossbows are bad... I just don't think of them as bows and I don't think shooting them is archery. Just my opinion, and you guys have definitely not changed that. If you think they are bows and require archery skills to fire, more power to you. You have 3 places to go and practice what you preach. I'll trust my state's Fish and Game dept to set the rules and seasons with our herd's best interest in mind and not the crossbow lovers or angry archers. It is hard to debate a point with guys who fail to see valid points, I believe BigJ does and even Data does from time to time, but it appears as in many areas, there are different conclusions to draw from the same info. It is clear to me that crossbows are not archery and should be managed seperatly, but 3 guys here feel different. We are all hunters and we do all get to chase whitetails each fall and new hunters have more opportunities than ever should they care to try hunting. I don't think crossbows will attract many new people, they have been around forever and are legal already in many states ... because it's not the crossbow that introduces people to hunting its other hunters. |
RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
please tell me one negative to closing this DA## thread
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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
Sorry, I've been away for a while. Mattiac, yes I have seen people carrying crossbows in my state (Arkansas) and hunting, killing, and missing deer just like people with compounds and traditional equipment. Like I said before, I hunt with a compound because I see more advantages to a compound than a crossbow. I'm pragmatic; I want an advantage when I am hunting deer, because I'm in the deer's home that he/she knows a heck of a lot better than me.
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