Pic on me and new/used bow....
09-07-2002, 08:31 AM
#1
Pic on me and new/used bow....
Hey there,
Remember a while back I wrote in because I won a used PSE Centerflite lefty compound bow off Ebay? It's in great shape and I am learning how to shoot it. I don't (yet) have a peepsite, but can hit the target in and around the bullseye between 10-15 yards.
Please critique my form in the photo below. I have a 65# bow, 30" draw length, and use a small crackshot thumb trigger release. No peepsite, no kisser button, but have a nice TM Hunter arrow rest and PSE 3 pin fiber optic sight. The arrows I use are Easton #2315 at 30 1/2" and 125gr field tips. When I anchor the release underneath my jaw at a full draw, everything lines up square and if I blur out the bow string in the sight pins, I hit the bullseye dead on.
Thanks for your opinion.
Butch
Remember a while back I wrote in because I won a used PSE Centerflite lefty compound bow off Ebay? It's in great shape and I am learning how to shoot it. I don't (yet) have a peepsite, but can hit the target in and around the bullseye between 10-15 yards.
Please critique my form in the photo below. I have a 65# bow, 30" draw length, and use a small crackshot thumb trigger release. No peepsite, no kisser button, but have a nice TM Hunter arrow rest and PSE 3 pin fiber optic sight. The arrows I use are Easton #2315 at 30 1/2" and 125gr field tips. When I anchor the release underneath my jaw at a full draw, everything lines up square and if I blur out the bow string in the sight pins, I hit the bullseye dead on.
Thanks for your opinion.
Butch
09-07-2002, 11:01 AM
#4
RE: Pic on me and new/used bow....
Thanks....
Yeah the photo was taken by my wife. I was at full draw (you'll notice the PSE quiver is empty of arrows) just about to shoot the last arrow, when I decided to get my wife and say, "Honey take a picture of me".
I had myself measured at Dick's Sporting Goods here in town, a while ago and they measured me at a solid 30" draw. I don't know if being 6' and 210lbs has anything to do with shooting a bow.... I'm learning and having a great time with it. It's addicting!
Butch
Yeah the photo was taken by my wife. I was at full draw (you'll notice the PSE quiver is empty of arrows) just about to shoot the last arrow, when I decided to get my wife and say, "Honey take a picture of me".
I had myself measured at Dick's Sporting Goods here in town, a while ago and they measured me at a solid 30" draw. I don't know if being 6' and 210lbs has anything to do with shooting a bow.... I'm learning and having a great time with it. It's addicting!
Butch
09-07-2002, 11:10 AM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Pic on me and new/used bow....
That draw length doesn't just LOOK too short.......it IS too short Butch. In fact WAY too short.
Looks like it could be as much as 2" short.
This will make it VERY difficult for you to find a solid repeatable anchor, and never lets your stabilizer muscles really settle in for a solid shot.
Plus if you get a peep sight, it may be very difficult for you to even see thru it that far from your face.
Bow arm position looks good......you are gripping the bow way too tight and your overall bow arm right too your fingers looks too rigid.
Your release arm is in nice position, but too far forward due to the short draw length..........
Butch, do yourself a big favor and get that bow to a GOOD bowshop and see if you can lengthen the draw........get measured and find out what your draw length really is.
If that bow will not go any longer in the draw, I hate to say it but you need to find a different bow to shoot to any potential you may have.......and you'll NEVER know just how well you can shoot if you keep it.
After looking harder at the picture, the bow may only be about 1" or so too short (still definitely short), but your head position is set too far back to begin with. You have the posture of someone shooting a bow too long in draw even tho its way too short.........you are leaning back and have your head going along with it.
Try standing straight upright and nestle your head down closer to that string........A good indicator of proper draw length is with proper form and a relaxed shooting position,the string is brushing the tip of your nose, and or the string crossing at the corner of your mouth. Not a true measurement by any means , but an indicator to see if you are even close.
Get with someone who knows what they are doing, and have them observe you anchor and shoot........some speculation we can do from that picture (like I'm doing), but you really need to have someone look at you from different angles and up close.
And like I said.......GET MEASURED BY A PRO SHOP. I think you are going to hear from them, very similar stuff to what you will hear here.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!
Looks like it could be as much as 2" short.
This will make it VERY difficult for you to find a solid repeatable anchor, and never lets your stabilizer muscles really settle in for a solid shot.
Plus if you get a peep sight, it may be very difficult for you to even see thru it that far from your face.
Bow arm position looks good......you are gripping the bow way too tight and your overall bow arm right too your fingers looks too rigid.
Your release arm is in nice position, but too far forward due to the short draw length..........
Butch, do yourself a big favor and get that bow to a GOOD bowshop and see if you can lengthen the draw........get measured and find out what your draw length really is.
If that bow will not go any longer in the draw, I hate to say it but you need to find a different bow to shoot to any potential you may have.......and you'll NEVER know just how well you can shoot if you keep it.
After looking harder at the picture, the bow may only be about 1" or so too short (still definitely short), but your head position is set too far back to begin with. You have the posture of someone shooting a bow too long in draw even tho its way too short.........you are leaning back and have your head going along with it.
Try standing straight upright and nestle your head down closer to that string........A good indicator of proper draw length is with proper form and a relaxed shooting position,the string is brushing the tip of your nose, and or the string crossing at the corner of your mouth. Not a true measurement by any means , but an indicator to see if you are even close.
Get with someone who knows what they are doing, and have them observe you anchor and shoot........some speculation we can do from that picture (like I'm doing), but you really need to have someone look at you from different angles and up close.
And like I said.......GET MEASURED BY A PRO SHOP. I think you are going to hear from them, very similar stuff to what you will hear here.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!
09-07-2002, 11:48 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Pic on me and new/used bow....
Well, except for the fact you've got HAIR, you look darned near like a smaller version of ME! You have my sympathies.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Definite agreement on both the grip and draw length. Try curling the middle, ring and pinky fingers between your palm and the handle, and loosely wrap your forefinger around the front of the grip to lightly touch your thumb, just enough tension to keep the bow from flying across the yard. Also, you want the handle to ride on the thumbside of the line running down your palm, starting between your thumb/forefinger down to the middle of your wrist. You've got it right in the middle of your palm like you're toting a suitcase.
Your basic stance is okay but needs a little fine tuning. Head comfortably erect. Bow arm shoulder held in a low, relaxed position. Elbow not locked out. However, you are leaning back slightly at the hips. The angle of your arms is making you look whompy-jawed. Rather than aiming with your arms, you need to establish a solid 'T' with your bow arm and string arm elbow, then bend at the waist to get on target. For the target you're shooting at, you should be bending slightly forward rather than slightly back. Like Matt says, that could make the bow's draw length look even shorter than it actually is.
If you can't get the draw on that bow lengthened, then have the shop tie on an extra long string loop for you to shoot with. I've shot bows up to 2" shorter than my actual draw length pretty well with that little trick. Not an ideal setup, but it will tide you over until you decide to break out the checkbook for another bow. It WILL happen. Sooner or later...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Definite agreement on both the grip and draw length. Try curling the middle, ring and pinky fingers between your palm and the handle, and loosely wrap your forefinger around the front of the grip to lightly touch your thumb, just enough tension to keep the bow from flying across the yard. Also, you want the handle to ride on the thumbside of the line running down your palm, starting between your thumb/forefinger down to the middle of your wrist. You've got it right in the middle of your palm like you're toting a suitcase.
Your basic stance is okay but needs a little fine tuning. Head comfortably erect. Bow arm shoulder held in a low, relaxed position. Elbow not locked out. However, you are leaning back slightly at the hips. The angle of your arms is making you look whompy-jawed. Rather than aiming with your arms, you need to establish a solid 'T' with your bow arm and string arm elbow, then bend at the waist to get on target. For the target you're shooting at, you should be bending slightly forward rather than slightly back. Like Matt says, that could make the bow's draw length look even shorter than it actually is.
If you can't get the draw on that bow lengthened, then have the shop tie on an extra long string loop for you to shoot with. I've shot bows up to 2" shorter than my actual draw length pretty well with that little trick. Not an ideal setup, but it will tide you over until you decide to break out the checkbook for another bow. It WILL happen. Sooner or later...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
09-07-2002, 12:14 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Pic on me and new/used bow....
From the pic , it looks like you have pretty good form for someone new. I agree with the relaxed grip.
I disagree with your draw being too short. At full draw , the string should be around 1/2"-3/4" past the corner of your mouth and you should have a slight bend in your bow arm , which from the pic , it appears you have both.
Keep practicing , but keep it fun!
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
I disagree with your draw being too short. At full draw , the string should be around 1/2"-3/4" past the corner of your mouth and you should have a slight bend in your bow arm , which from the pic , it appears you have both.
Keep practicing , but keep it fun!
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
09-07-2002, 12:53 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: shepherd mi. USA
Posts: 292
RE: Pic on me and new/used bow....
i agree with matt. i think draw length is to short. secondly you MUST have an anchor point that you will always draw to. a kisser, a nock, a peep sight, something. you may always bring it to the same place during practice but during the real deal you have 1 chance. if you have been sitting in the cold for 5 hours and all of the sudden a 30 point buck walks out 20 feet away from you, you need some way to make sure that your stiff muscles will draw to your anchor point.
hunt on
hunt on
09-07-2002, 02:19 PM
#9
RE: Pic on me and new/used bow....
Thanks everyone.... Here's an update:
I called a buddy of mine who has a bow. He was the one who first told me about it on Ebay and grab it fast, then get it setup at the pro shop.
The picture was taken with an old Canon 35mm SLR camera and put on my PC Scanner. So, anyway, he took the actual photo in hand, and we went back out to the back yard. Using his judgement on locations, we completely duplicated the stance and measurement in the photograph. I am and standing right foot forward with my front foot on a small root from the big tree behind me, that poked through the grass. Roughly 12 yards down the yard is the Virginia pine tree. I have a small 24x24" styrofoam target wedged in the grass about a foot in front of the tree. That is what I am aiming at.
Anyway, we decide to completely duplicate the photograph so my friend can accurately check my out. So I line myself back up just like the photo and go to a full draw. My buddy warns me to do whatever I can to hold the draw and try to hold it and hold it and so on... He studies me, studies the photograph and has me move this and tilt that, so I appear exactly like the photo. Then he has me FREEZE the position. He comes running over and without touching me or moving me, he gets right behind me to look over my shoulder and kind of sights how I am sighting and looks at my form up close. He walks all the way around me and finally sums it up bluntly, "Dude, what the $*&!% are you doing? No, no, no, no, no......"
Here's what he found out:
I am fighting the bow and not at 100% full draw (I let up a hair?).
I have a death grip on the grip
I am leaning back and to the side, giving the appearance that my bow is too short.
My head is tilted back trying to anchor under my chin and trying to see the sight pins with the bow string in the way.
Lastly, he said, "Take this bow to the shop and get a $*@&! peepsight and get them to accurately measure you for it and get you aligned."
So anyway, he had me shoot an arrow and watched me closely. Then he said, "okay, let's do it again, but work with me here... trust me.. And don't you DARE release an arrow yet!!" And then he gets right up on me and once I'm at at full draw, he pushes my body straight, squares my head straight which brings the bow string right close to my mouth and moustache and a little beyond. He jokingly taps my bow hand and says, "Jesus Christ, relax! The bow ain't going anywhere!" and gets me to loosen up the grip, which loosened up my bow arm and elbow. My left shoulder and left arm are starting to scream because I've been holding the draw for a while... He gets behind me and peering over my shoulder he lines me up and adjusts my head one more time and my body and hollers, "GO FOR IT - LET IT RIP!" I hit the thumb trigger and THWACK! believe it or not, I hit about a 1/4 outside the exact center of the bullseye!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
So anyway, to sum everything up, it was my form. I had basically no clue what the heck I was doing. Once he got me set, he said the bow is fine and that I look to be a 30 1/2" draw, but a string loop will easily fix that. My form was just so out of whack, and he cracked on me that I was lucky I didn't get hurt. Ouch... <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> Hey, he's a buddy of mine and we dis on each other sometimes for laughs.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Butch
I called a buddy of mine who has a bow. He was the one who first told me about it on Ebay and grab it fast, then get it setup at the pro shop.
The picture was taken with an old Canon 35mm SLR camera and put on my PC Scanner. So, anyway, he took the actual photo in hand, and we went back out to the back yard. Using his judgement on locations, we completely duplicated the stance and measurement in the photograph. I am and standing right foot forward with my front foot on a small root from the big tree behind me, that poked through the grass. Roughly 12 yards down the yard is the Virginia pine tree. I have a small 24x24" styrofoam target wedged in the grass about a foot in front of the tree. That is what I am aiming at.
Anyway, we decide to completely duplicate the photograph so my friend can accurately check my out. So I line myself back up just like the photo and go to a full draw. My buddy warns me to do whatever I can to hold the draw and try to hold it and hold it and so on... He studies me, studies the photograph and has me move this and tilt that, so I appear exactly like the photo. Then he has me FREEZE the position. He comes running over and without touching me or moving me, he gets right behind me to look over my shoulder and kind of sights how I am sighting and looks at my form up close. He walks all the way around me and finally sums it up bluntly, "Dude, what the $*&!% are you doing? No, no, no, no, no......"
Here's what he found out:
I am fighting the bow and not at 100% full draw (I let up a hair?).
I have a death grip on the grip
I am leaning back and to the side, giving the appearance that my bow is too short.
My head is tilted back trying to anchor under my chin and trying to see the sight pins with the bow string in the way.
Lastly, he said, "Take this bow to the shop and get a $*@&! peepsight and get them to accurately measure you for it and get you aligned."
So anyway, he had me shoot an arrow and watched me closely. Then he said, "okay, let's do it again, but work with me here... trust me.. And don't you DARE release an arrow yet!!" And then he gets right up on me and once I'm at at full draw, he pushes my body straight, squares my head straight which brings the bow string right close to my mouth and moustache and a little beyond. He jokingly taps my bow hand and says, "Jesus Christ, relax! The bow ain't going anywhere!" and gets me to loosen up the grip, which loosened up my bow arm and elbow. My left shoulder and left arm are starting to scream because I've been holding the draw for a while... He gets behind me and peering over my shoulder he lines me up and adjusts my head one more time and my body and hollers, "GO FOR IT - LET IT RIP!" I hit the thumb trigger and THWACK! believe it or not, I hit about a 1/4 outside the exact center of the bullseye!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
So anyway, to sum everything up, it was my form. I had basically no clue what the heck I was doing. Once he got me set, he said the bow is fine and that I look to be a 30 1/2" draw, but a string loop will easily fix that. My form was just so out of whack, and he cracked on me that I was lucky I didn't get hurt. Ouch... <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> Hey, he's a buddy of mine and we dis on each other sometimes for laughs.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Butch
