"As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
09-06-2002, 12:34 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix Az Phoenix, AZ USA
Posts: 459
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
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not to mention the lack of challenge that they present.
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Lack of challenge??? Come on a desert deer hunt here in Arizona some time and tell me that hunting with a rifle is a lack of challenge. Don't bother bringing the tree stand either cause they don't work well on cactus.
not to mention the lack of challenge that they present.
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Lack of challenge??? Come on a desert deer hunt here in Arizona some time and tell me that hunting with a rifle is a lack of challenge. Don't bother bringing the tree stand either cause they don't work well on cactus.
09-06-2002, 01:00 PM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston, Texas. Member since 04/05/2
Posts: 766
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
I also see the point Wolfen is trying to make, but remember it was sound Game management (Goverment) that brought the whitetail from the thousands in the early 1900,s to the millions upon millions that roam our woods today...not individual QDM.
Legion of Doom Enforcer
Legion of Doom Enforcer
09-06-2002, 01:26 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
One thing I'm quite sure of, if there is a problem that needs correcting, legislation is the only answer. You cannot count on the masses to do anything, other than to barely stay withing the confines of the law. I'm not referring to any individuals or even much of the bowhunting crowd, but to the hordes that invade the woods on opening day of gun season. They are the ones who dictate almost every aspect of the herd and the only way to contain them is with laws.
09-06-2002, 02:33 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: QDM Heaven
Posts: 847
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
PAbowhntr...lol...I know ya hate me man but it's good to see we have some common ground.
HuntingBry...good points but how much money is that yo yo that goes out once a year to blast anything in sight going to spend. Isn't that the type of guy who really has nothing vested anyway? If they don't have time to hunt then do they really have any time at all to practice and become a safe and better hunter? That kind of hunter sounds dangerous to me and I personally wouldn't mind them not being in the woods during the season.
Tazzer...as the Roman emperors set out to "make the world Rome", I intend to make the deer hunting world Kansas. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> But to seriously answer your question about an overpopulated area...although I don't gun hunt, I do understand it's value and necessecity in controlling the deer population and do realize a gun season will always be needed. I am however, pro shotgun only and muzzleloader season. As far as points restrictions in an over populated area, it all depends on what the balance of the herd is in the area. I'm just guessing but I would think most overpopulated areas have huge numbers of does vs. bucks.
Silentarsehole...bite me<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>..don't fret buddy, I don't think you're a loser. (by the way, it is spelled l-o-s-e-r, not l-o-o-s-e-r) I hope you shoot better than you spell.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
HuntingBry...good points but how much money is that yo yo that goes out once a year to blast anything in sight going to spend. Isn't that the type of guy who really has nothing vested anyway? If they don't have time to hunt then do they really have any time at all to practice and become a safe and better hunter? That kind of hunter sounds dangerous to me and I personally wouldn't mind them not being in the woods during the season.
Tazzer...as the Roman emperors set out to "make the world Rome", I intend to make the deer hunting world Kansas. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> But to seriously answer your question about an overpopulated area...although I don't gun hunt, I do understand it's value and necessecity in controlling the deer population and do realize a gun season will always be needed. I am however, pro shotgun only and muzzleloader season. As far as points restrictions in an over populated area, it all depends on what the balance of the herd is in the area. I'm just guessing but I would think most overpopulated areas have huge numbers of does vs. bucks.
Silentarsehole...bite me<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>..don't fret buddy, I don't think you're a loser. (by the way, it is spelled l-o-s-e-r, not l-o-o-s-e-r) I hope you shoot better than you spell.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
09-06-2002, 02:39 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
wolfen, the guy you are referring to may not be the best hunter, but he still has to buy clothes to hunt in, a gun to shoot, bullets to shoot out of it, and a hunting license. That may not be much when it's one guy, but when it's a million it does add up.
09-06-2002, 02:39 PM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 15,452
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
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When debating various topics here such as; Baiting vs. Not Baiting, Bowhunting vs. Gun Hunting, QDM vs. Anti-QDM, and so on and so forth, I constantly read replies stating, "as long as it's legal." What's up with that? Since when did people become so passive soas to just leave it all up to the Government as to what form or shape their hunting world takes. It's a shame that hunters can't be disciplined and educated enough to understand all of the aspects and the huge amount of responsibility involved with deer hunting without having to pass gobs of legislation to MAKE them understand. If you shoot all of the 6 month and 1.5 year old bucks you will never see a large buck out of your treestand unless you have a portable TV and are watching TNN Outdoors from your stand. Nevertheless, the only way the situation can be improved is by passing laws to make it illegal to shoot immature bucks as is being done in many states.
High-powered rifles are legal in some states but are involved in more incidents of poaching as well as hunting accidents and fatalities than any other hunting weapon, not to mention the lack of challenge that they present. So what has to happen...many states have gone to muzzleloader or shotgun only and have had to make high-powered rifles "illegal" to hunt with.
CWD is spreading rampant throughout the country and it has been proven that throwing out bait piles to feed the deer concentrates too many into one area accelerating the spread of CWD as well as many other diseases. So finally, states must pass legislation to make it "illegal" to bait deer. But what is amusing to me is that Joe Hunter is in a state where baiting is still legal although he is surrounded by states where CWD is spreading and baiting has become "illegal" but since he has no mind or sense of his own, continues to bait because he lives by the philosophy of, "as long as it's legal."
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When debating various topics here such as; Baiting vs. Not Baiting, Bowhunting vs. Gun Hunting, QDM vs. Anti-QDM, and so on and so forth, I constantly read replies stating, "as long as it's legal." What's up with that? Since when did people become so passive soas to just leave it all up to the Government as to what form or shape their hunting world takes. It's a shame that hunters can't be disciplined and educated enough to understand all of the aspects and the huge amount of responsibility involved with deer hunting without having to pass gobs of legislation to MAKE them understand. If you shoot all of the 6 month and 1.5 year old bucks you will never see a large buck out of your treestand unless you have a portable TV and are watching TNN Outdoors from your stand. Nevertheless, the only way the situation can be improved is by passing laws to make it illegal to shoot immature bucks as is being done in many states.
High-powered rifles are legal in some states but are involved in more incidents of poaching as well as hunting accidents and fatalities than any other hunting weapon, not to mention the lack of challenge that they present. So what has to happen...many states have gone to muzzleloader or shotgun only and have had to make high-powered rifles "illegal" to hunt with.
CWD is spreading rampant throughout the country and it has been proven that throwing out bait piles to feed the deer concentrates too many into one area accelerating the spread of CWD as well as many other diseases. So finally, states must pass legislation to make it "illegal" to bait deer. But what is amusing to me is that Joe Hunter is in a state where baiting is still legal although he is surrounded by states where CWD is spreading and baiting has become "illegal" but since he has no mind or sense of his own, continues to bait because he lives by the philosophy of, "as long as it's legal."
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09-06-2002, 02:42 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
I don't even know where to start on this topic!
Some of what you say is true, but most of it is pure B.S.!!!!
I hunt with bow and guns! It amazes me to see the gall that some "elitest" bow hunters that think that all gun hunting is easy!
Also, do you really think that you can do without the gun hunters? Do you really think that anti hunters give a rat's @$$ about what hunting that they can get outlawed? If they are ever successful in outlawing hunting with guns, they will outlaw hunting period!!!!!
Bowhunters need gun hunters, just like rifle and shotgun owners need handgun owners too! We either stick together or we get picked off one group at a time!
Also it is wrong to lump all styles of hunting into one catagory and then label it as wrong.
Different states and different regions have different ways of hunting, that other regions know very little or nothing about, so don't be so quick to label something as wrong! Look at each situation separately. For example, all hunters are not trophy hunters! If we were then the goal of hunting as a game management tool would not work, not enough animals would be taken to keep herd populations in check!
Also all "baiting" is not hunting over a "mountain" of corn! There is such a thing as supplemental feeding!
There is a difference between "high fence hunting" on 200 acres, where the animals are fed from vehicles and come running, not to the sound of a feeder but to the sound of a truck motor!
Hunting a high fenced area of 10,000 to 20,000 acres where the animals are not tame is as challenging as any other hunting! There is lots of room on 10,000 plus acres for wild animals to remain wild! Maybe some city slickers don't understand that 10,000 acres is over 15 square miles of territory!
I don't hunt high fenced areas, I don't have a problem with those who can afford to, as long as it is not hunting a tame animal!
These are just a few examples of how different situations make things totally different than they might appear to be!
So, MOST OF THE TIME, if it is legal, it should be up to the individual to decide on what is ethical for themselves!
Not for an isolated group of self-righteous elitest's to decide!
WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER OR THE ANTI"S WILL PICK US APART!
Frank
Some of what you say is true, but most of it is pure B.S.!!!!
I hunt with bow and guns! It amazes me to see the gall that some "elitest" bow hunters that think that all gun hunting is easy!
Also, do you really think that you can do without the gun hunters? Do you really think that anti hunters give a rat's @$$ about what hunting that they can get outlawed? If they are ever successful in outlawing hunting with guns, they will outlaw hunting period!!!!!
Bowhunters need gun hunters, just like rifle and shotgun owners need handgun owners too! We either stick together or we get picked off one group at a time!
Also it is wrong to lump all styles of hunting into one catagory and then label it as wrong.
Different states and different regions have different ways of hunting, that other regions know very little or nothing about, so don't be so quick to label something as wrong! Look at each situation separately. For example, all hunters are not trophy hunters! If we were then the goal of hunting as a game management tool would not work, not enough animals would be taken to keep herd populations in check!
Also all "baiting" is not hunting over a "mountain" of corn! There is such a thing as supplemental feeding!
There is a difference between "high fence hunting" on 200 acres, where the animals are fed from vehicles and come running, not to the sound of a feeder but to the sound of a truck motor!
Hunting a high fenced area of 10,000 to 20,000 acres where the animals are not tame is as challenging as any other hunting! There is lots of room on 10,000 plus acres for wild animals to remain wild! Maybe some city slickers don't understand that 10,000 acres is over 15 square miles of territory!
I don't hunt high fenced areas, I don't have a problem with those who can afford to, as long as it is not hunting a tame animal!
These are just a few examples of how different situations make things totally different than they might appear to be!
So, MOST OF THE TIME, if it is legal, it should be up to the individual to decide on what is ethical for themselves!
Not for an isolated group of self-righteous elitest's to decide!
WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER OR THE ANTI"S WILL PICK US APART!
Frank
09-06-2002, 02:45 PM
#18
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 15,452
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
Boy I messed that Quote procedure up,Any way your Comment about since when do we let the Government decide . Hey we as individuals are the Government. People forget that constitutional fact.The Government is not a bunch of senators,Congressmen or federal workers.We are the Government ,You and me.
09-06-2002, 02:47 PM
#19
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: QDM Heaven
Posts: 847
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
JagMagMan...before I lose my temper, please scroll up and read my response to Tazman about my understanding the role of guns in controlling deer populations. As far as the rest of your post, I don't have the time at this moment to explain but I think you misunderstand my point in a major way.
09-06-2002, 03:43 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
RE: "As Long as It's Legal"....Gimme a Break
I agree wholeheartedly that "as long as it's legal" is often the gateway for SOME hunters to abuse the privelege of hunting. I have shot immature bucks.....I have shot immature does. I usually hold out for LARGE deer of either sex b/c I love venison. I will shoot what is legal , but more importantly, I try to shoot what is legal AND will assist the balance of the area I'm hunting. I often hunt private land and adhere to the wishes of the land owner. Staying within the law is good, but staying within the boundarys of common sense and ethical stewardship goes hand and hand with each hunter's responsibilities. There is a place and time for culling the herd to create large bucks, but that is not the only goal of herd management. Trophy bucks are just that......trophy bucks. The existence of large #'s of trophy bucks isn't necessarily a barometer for herd health. The big picture is what all hunters should be looking at.