the point i'm trying to make is that i just don't see how you're making it fit. maybe i would if i see how "system," "refined" and "variance" are defined.

i apologize if i came on too strong, but i still say making comments like

leads me to believe that it can only be the result of envy. especially basing your opinion on (in your own words) "really speculative circumstantial type stuff." it sure looks like you really want chuck to fail. why is that? i think chuck does everything a person can to show he's "legit." i just don't see why people always want to tear down someone because of great accomplishments, instead of giving them a pat on the back...

i wonder if people back in the era of the babe accused him of cheating after displaying such wild variance...

again, sorry if i offended, like everyone else here, i'm not trying to make enemies. after all, as bowhunters, we're on the same team.

Some people are so jealous and so arrogant that they refuse to accept that there are thousands of hunters who are twice the hunter they THINK they are.

I suppose everyone on this board is a much better buck slayer than Myles Keller...????

Dream on, you will always be a wannabe.

If Chuck Adams doesnt want to talk, who cares? I get in moods sometimes where i just want to be alone shooting my bow or reading and not having anyone bother me. I just dont want to talk to anyone. Sometimes you get sick of people and you just want to be by yourself. Think of having to be in the hunting limelight all the time? going to shows all the time. i'd get sick of it. I'd wanna crawl in a hole if it wasnt hunting season. Chuck seems like the kind of guy who likes going solo. He obviously doesnt hunt with friends from August-January. thats just the kind of person he is. if he wants to act like that, who cares?why should we expect anything of him? we have we done for him that he HAS to go to shows, other than probably being endorsed and sponsered. he should be praising the guy, not knocking him down because he doesnt want to sign a few autographs.

I do believe if you had the money, you could kill as many record class animals as Chuck. But you are never going to have that talent he has for bowhunting. we all got talents. some can work well with others, some can trade stocks, while others can shoot a bow well and stalk animals.

I really dont think bill jordan is anything near Chuck. I mainly watch the realtree videos and other hunting videos as something to pass the off season. I honestly could care less about the rifle hunts, the bow hunts are always fun to watch. but bill jordan and gang, and the rest of them guys, they're out to make money. Chuck isnt doing for people to watch. He's doing what he loves. he's worked his ass off to get where he is today, and i think we should be praising him for that. anyone ripping on him, i doubt you are 1/1000th the bowhunter Chuck Adams is. From one bowhunter to another, Good job Chuck!

slayer

Krotalus - do you not believe Primos, Realtee and the other shows spend thousand of hours between a half dozen guys and tens of thousands of dollars hunting big trophy animals every year ? And their WR animal count is .... what, ZERO ??

If it were as easy as spending money to go and shoot a WR animal - they'd be guys doing it, filming it and making money on it.

But they aint. Why ?

Because those poor guys are no match for the Chuckmeister, the ChuckDaddy, the Grand Puppa Chuckeroooo

Stealthy, i think those guys are more interested in getting enough footage for the next show, i dont believe that thier main goal is record class animals.

I know , I just get a chuckle out of this. Everytime a thread starts up about the man it turns into a multiple page debate.[>:] He probably wont get the respect he deserves until he's long dead and gone.

Easy there big fella!

I just had to address Dirt2. I thought you might have gotten a clue on the last post about Chucks WR bull elk. I have hunted the exact same country as Chuck has and have seen some BIG bulls in there. I think your guide buddy is full of cr##, because I would like to have seen him watching Chuck in that country. It would be near to astronomically impossible. I've been there. As far as the game farms, why don't you get your information from the Montana Livestock Association, regaurding the dispossal and record keeping of game farm elk. May you haven't heard of chronic wasting disease. Also it sounds like you may live in Montana but I dout you are from Montana. You maybe would like to know that it was the Montana citizens and sportsman that passed legislation that out lawed game farms and canned hunts to protect our natuaral wild life. I don't know if you have ever heard of the Missouri Breaks bulls but they have GREAT genetics and have spread over a pretty big region now. There are now heards of elk as close as 30 miles east of Billings, MT. They have come from the Missouri Breaks.

I have personally met Chuck Adams and hunted a week with him in New Brunswick Canada. He was not conceded nor arrogant. He was fun and funny. As some have said in these threads some like him and some don't. I know for the most part alot of the hunters rifle and bow liked him. A couple didn't and they let that be known by their attitudes and comments. He just didn't pay any attention to them. I was told by a mutaul friend of Chuck and myself that after he got his bear on that hunt he had the guide set up a stand next to the one he was in so he could sit with a young bow hunter and help him, as I was told he was unsure of judging a bear and witch one to shoot. I was told this young man got a 350# bore. Like in life you can't like everybody, but don't bash someone on something that you know very little about.

As far as the "100 signatures in five minutes" , don't you think that an investigation has already been done, because it has. The rumors run rampant after taking an animal like that. That is one very good reason for pictures in the field.

Dirt if you are from Montana and would like to visit mono-e-mono on this subject just e-mail me and maybe we can get together for a cup of coffee and talk some hunting. I live in Billings so if you are in the surrounding area like Bozeman, Lewistown, Bridger, Hysham, or any where else in the area let me know.

See, this is what is so amazing about this topic.

Some guys like Chuck, some guys dispise him. How can that be ? Is Chuck bipolar or something ?

So I find myself having to believe the most logical conclusion is this - the guys who like him are, well, likeable bowhunters who are pretty easy going and see things as they are. The guys who hate him are envious and jealous of his accomplishments and not likeable themselves.

Sound about right fellows ?

I'm really mixed about carrying this thing on, it seems to have run way past its useful life. For MT elk addict, however I have a couple questions:

1)Drugs and illegal immigrants are strictly prohibited and the "war" on them is backed by multibillion dollar federal budgets. So, we don't have any illegal drugs or immigrants running around in America, do we? (On that note, I was talking to an official from B&C at a seminar last weekend, and he noted the explosion of nontypical heads coming into the books these days. Game farms equal red deer genes equal nontypical racks, you do the math.)

2) Granted, the breaks produces great bulls, but how many new world records came out of there, before Adams?

I'm constantly amazed to come on this site and find all the Chuck Adams wannabes sharpening their hatchets in his defense. Here in my circle of hunting contacts - guides, friends, and family - you'd get an entirely different discussion on Chuck Adams, just 180 degrees from this site. Our main argument would be over exactly what Adams' cheating method is.

Invariably somebody wants to throw out the jealousy argument, which is really an ad hominem nonargument. It belongs on the Jerry Springer show. Nonetheless, since somebody started it ... Who the hell is Chuck Adams to all you apologists? Did he drag one of your kids from a burning building? Did he rescue your sister from a rapist? I mean, come on, so you've seen his photo in a Cabela's catalog. Yee haw! Are you really so hypnotised by modern media outlets that your little brain circuitry goes haywire after seeing Chuck Adams' face for the 100th time? "Chuck Adams is great, Chuck Adams is god ... WHAT! Some heretic suggested he's a mere mortal, ARRGGGGGHHHHHHH! All fellow zombies join me, the reputation of some guy I don't know from Adam (excuse the pun) is under attack. Let's get them!"

Anyhow, for Sho-me, thanks for the olive branch. You are entitled to your opinion. I do respect that, even if I'm an opinionated SOB myself.

I'd like to set up a test for anyone still with an open mind on Chuck Adams. Based on my previous arguments, I argued that bowhunting was so highly refined that Adams' record is implausible. Well, let's say for argument sake I'm wrong, bowhunting isn't so advanced and his records are legit. How can we know that's true? My radical suggestion is that if Adams is indeed legit, he will not continue to set new records at his current pace. Period.

See, when someone raises the bar like Adams has done, either every one else surrenders (very unlikely) or they discover new reserves of resolve to "do what he's doing", sort of like what's going on in the PGA in the chase for Tiger Woods. The result is that other people close the gap, they always do, it's a matter of history. So, if Adams sets no more records, or one or two more, for the rest of his career, then 20 years from now I'll come back and admit, hey I was wrong. However, if he keeps knocking over new records like bowling pins, then I reserve the right to be skeptical.

HEY! there is something we agree on.
what was the original post anyway?...



ditto. [8D]

let's get back to looking at trail cam bucks and discussing arrows, broadheads, bows, ke, foc, etc...

good luck to you this season!