Now, just imagine the thrill from taking that mature buck from 6 yards with a selfbow. You would have done something very few people will ever do. Again, I question, is it just about the kill or does the experience also count?


I'm not sure where you think I'm trying to impose my standards. I'm doing no such thing. I'm just discussing an issue that has come up. Is there a limit to equipment advances that will change bowhunting into some other kind of hunting? Personally, I think there is and am voicing this concern, not trying to impose my standard. It seems many people in this thread cannot handle a discussion on this subject without getting defensive, and accusing people of being elitists, etc. It is my opinion that as kills are made at further distances, the character of bowhunting is changed and the upclose, personal hunting experience has been lost. Just like gunhunters shoot way before a deer ever gets close, bowhunters who can shoot effectively at 80 yards, will not wait until the deer is at 8 yards.

Why would anyone bowhunt when they could use a more efficient weapon? I can think of two reasons. One would be to extend your hunting season, since bowhunters get a generous, separate season. Two, because it is a more personal, up close, hunting experience. In other words, a way of testing your ability to get real close to your quarry, because that is what this weapon requires. As the weapon evolves and changes, the closer it gets to eliminating reason number two. As the killing distance increases, the bowhunting experience decreases, in my opinion. This is just an opinion. I'm not impossing on anyone, nor am I saying I'm better then anyone. It's an observation that people should be able to read, without seeing it as an attack. Is it okay if bowhunting ranges evolve into ranges that are similar to distances commonly taken by gun hunters? I'm just trying to get people to think.

SA, again that's your thing not mine. When I try to consider the thrill involved with killing a bruiser with a selfbow my brain automatically purges the info places it in the recycle bin and places a speed buring Bowtech in my hand. That's what floats my boat. I derive my satisfaction from being embarrased to pull out my scrap book because I know people are going to think that I am bragging when I pull it out

I just don't see why it makes you any difference if someone kills one at 6 or 60 so long as it doesn't affect you. I don't understand why someone would want to impose their standards on another or pass judgement on them.

Hummmmm, It's kind or ironic that you would mention that especially considering some of the exploits of Fred Bear (whom many consider to be the father of modern bowhunting) that I have read. It seems like I read about Fred killing a Tiger at 100 yards etc. etc. Fred Bear consistently took the longest shots of any archer that I have ever heard of so if we go by your standards the sport has evolved in the opposite direction of what you are professing. So should I start steering newbies away from 70 lb long bows because Fred Bear didn't always try to get his game within 20 yards. I mean afterall anything past 6 yards is a perversion of the sport Ol Fred must of been raping the sport in your eyes. I'm just trying to get people to be more open minded rather than imposing thier definintion of what archery is and isn't because I think it's different for everyone and because I do it X way doesn't make it right or wrong, just my way.

Silent,

Your missing my point completely. I am not against compounds or shooting deer at 60 yards or tigers at 100 yards. For the third time, I am not trying to impose my standards. My point is simply that the bowhunting experience is completely different when it's done at close range with more primitive equipment. I regret that mamy beginners will not get to experience the whole range of bowhunting experiences, if the equipment becomes too advanced. I do not think it has gotten to that point yet, but I do wonder about the future and at what point I will look at it and say, it's hunting, but it's not bowhunting.

PABowhter brought up a topic for discussion that is going to have more then one point of view. I have no problem with different opinions. That is to be expected. We should all be allowed to state our opinions without being accused of trying to "impose my standard" on someone else. It's just an opinion, not an attempt at forcing someone to do it my way or to think exactly like me.

I still ain't got time for this old argument which has been around for awhile. I've got to go figure out how to get some more cams on my bows... Maybe some hubcaps or somethin on there.. the more gagets the better.

All I know is that most traditional people usually will take the time to get a dig in on a coumpound shooter and it's there in this thread too. I don't care though because I don't go to the traditional shoots. I know where I am not wanted. I, on the other hand welcome traditional shooters at the shoots that I do attend. I have shot with a couple of em even... Matter of fact this weekend if everything works out..

Why compound for me?? Simple, I can put a deer down quicker, a lot quicker, than I ever could with a recurve..

Lets see maybe a couple of more sights on there would look good...

Since the simpletons have devolved this into yet another trad vs compound thrashing...

Ah, but the thing is, since you shoot a stickbow then some feel you are forever disqualified from expressing the slightest negative opinion about high tech gear. They not only don't want to hear WHY you hold the opinions you do, they don't even want to hear them in the first place. 'They' are the majority. Just like any majority, they feel the minority should become like them. If not, then the minority should just sit down and shut up or, better yet, disappear so it can be easy to ignore them.

News flash to you guys that wish the trads would sit down and shut up. Techies and trads share the same season. Trads ARE the minority but they darn sure have a right to opine, comment and complain about the stuff the techies bring into that season. You might try shutting your own pie hole for a minute, opening your own minds, listen to what they have to say and try a little understanding on your own end.

That 'understanding' thing is a two way street. You want understanding? You gotta give some to get it.

Regardless of the equip advancement, there will always be trad shooters. Just because a new shooter may start with a compound or high tech doesn't mean they will never try another way. Actually, it seems like a lot of newbies might start with high tech and be more apt to be capable of doing it and enjoying it and stay with it which could lead them to trying other forms, where if they were to start with traditional equip they may be more apt to get discouraged and give it all up before they got started. I know I started with compounds, never thought of using trad, but now am interested in trying trad because of my enjoyment with the compound. Would I like to shoot a deer at 60 yards? Probably. Is it an absolute thrill to have a deer at 6 yards? You bet. I can do one of those now and will always continue to try and would do the other if the my skill and the equip allowed an accurate, ethical kill from that distance. I didn't even gun hunt this year, instead only focused on bow and had a blast. I probably saw 80, mayber 100 deer, of which I only shot at 3 and lost count on how many I passed that were 10, 15, and 20 yards.
BTW, if trad shooting is the fastest growing segment right now as stated in an earlier post, my theory is the number of archers has grown in the last 10-20 years due to the equipment advancements and now alot of those guys are now trying traditional. I could be wrong.

Okay, I tried resisting this post but couldn't

The major problem I see is some people down playing others equipment. I hear comments all the time such as...... "drop-aways are prone to error" "training wheels" "mechanicals are prone to failure".

It is one thing to disagree with what gear someone wants to use, but it is a whole nother story to get in a thread they posted and start down-playing their equipment. That is the major problem I see.

As far as enjoyment goes with trad equipment vs. tech equipment...... if your hunt is waged on what type of gear you have, well, then you shouldn't be hunting. Who really cares what others are hunting with? If you enjoy shooting deer with your stickbow, that is great and I respect that.... I personally enjoy smoking deer with my compound, now the question is, can you respect that or not? Your equipment has little to do with the enjoyment that you derive from the experience. You can take the stickbow and shoot a 140" buck at 6 yards, and I will take my compound and shoot a 140" buck at 6 yards and I can guarentee you that I won't be kicking myself for not shooting it with a stick bow. That is personall preferance.

As far as knowing your equipment goes.... yes, there are compound shooters who don't know their equipment well enough, but the same thing can be said about trad shooters. Too many people are insinuating that one gear choice will instantly mean that you know that equipment better than if another hunter using other equipment. Last time I checked, that was up to the individual, not the bow. Just because someone shoots a compound doesn' mean that they didn't take the time to get aquainted with their equipment!

The challenge comment is thrown in all the time! If someone knows their bow well enough, compound or trad, then shooting a deer in range shouldn't be a major challenege. Getting your scouting done, hanging your stands, over-comming the elements, and putting in the time to get that deer into range is the challenge! Putting an arrow through the kill zone isn't a sure thing, but the hardest part is over now, all you have to do is put the arrow in the kill-zone.

As far as consumers being pushed into shooting a certain type of accessory, well, that isn't the bows fault, that is the guy behind the counters fault. Most shops around here are open to what the customer wants, you tell them what you want, and they will put it on as long as it will work with your set-up. What I mean by "work with your set-up" is that the pro-shop isn't going to try and hook up the N.A.P. drop-away made for the Mathews LX onto a Hoyt RazorTec! Also, the consumer is to blame for this one. They shouldn't cave in to what others want them to shoot, hardly the fault of what type of bow you shoot.

The point is if someone asks a question about setting up their drop-away rest to shoot mechanil broadheads on carbon arrows, they don't want someone comming in and telling them that their drop-away is prone to failing, the mechanical heads won't open, and that the carbons aren't going to be accurate over-time! They are asking a question to get help on what to do with the gear they have, not what gear to get.

That very true, years of experience and a preferance to trad gear, but this is a two way street, not a 1-1/2 way street. What I am saying here is.... If I gave you all the credit that you deserve, but I choose to shoot a drop-away rest, shouldn't I get the credit I deserve? Should it be that I give you credit for using trad gear but when it comes to my drop-away rest, you call it inferior? Where is the "two way street" in that?

ArthurP, these two quotes were both from you, but my replys weren't directly aiming at you, they were meant to be spread over everyone out here in the world wide web!

In closing I will say that there has to be a "two way street" here. Compound shooters should give respect to the choices that Trad shooters choose, and Trad shooters should give respect to the choices that Compound shooters choose, even if they don't personally believe in them. We are all bow hunting and we are all trying to get out there an whack a deer! We love getting the deer in close and sending an arrow through that kill zone. The gear you have and use shouldn't be what decides the amount of enjoyment you get, I think the thrill of the hunt should be the determining factor.

P.S. Why are trad shooters using computers? Sorry, I just couldn't resist!

I think BM pretty much nailed a good point of mine with his statement there (minus the spelling errors...). This is not just about traditional versus compound shooters but also about compound shooters versus compound shooters. It is about being open minded enough to accept that others may have a different experience with the same piece of equipment.....or lack there of in some cases.

I know that stuff goes on, but I plead innocence. I rarely post to those kinds of threads, I don't use dropaways or mechanical heads and I don't shoot carbon for hunting. When I can't tell them how to make the stuff work, I leave that to the folks that know. So, I hope you're not pointing a finger at me, personally with that.

Now, the ones that ask about whether or not they should get that kind of gear in the first place, or what is wrong with this, that or the other, then I call that fair game.

What kind of rest/arrows/broadheads/cams/ bow/release you use is entirely unimportant to me, personally. Letoff is my hot button. Where I get on an uproar is when guys talk about holding their high letoff bows for minutes at a time, waiting for an animal to come into a shooting lane. That is where I would say one of the prime challenges of bowhunting - drawing undetected in the immediate presence of game - has been discarded. Which is also one of the prime distinctions between conventional bows and crossbows. (The 'C' word had already been broached, so don't blame me!) Anyone that says using high letoff in that fashion is okay, then they cannot be opposed to crossbows in bow season without being a flaming hypocrite.

Of course, we could also talk about bow-mounted electronics and draw locking doohickeys, which I am opposed to allowing in bow season. Both of which happen to be legal in my home state.

I would respect a trophy taken with that kind of stuff (after all, the deer didn't have any choice what he got shot with). The hunter's accomplishment? That's another matter.

Isn't that another way of telling trads to 'sit down and shut up'? I don't personally believe in dropaways, releases and all that stuff. But, like I said, those things are unimportant in the overall picture. I hate hearing compounds being called 'mechanist archery' and compound shooters being called 'machine operators' instead of archers (Most of that is from the "I'm more trad than you are" crowd of buttheads anyway and not many trads care much for those guys). I don't like hearing the 'spears and loincloth' dolts ragging on trads either. But there are a few things I am firmly opposed to. I couldn't respect myself if I did not speak my mind against them.

Arthur,

Like I said, those points were not express at you! You have always seemed to put your comments where they are needed/asked for! The problem I have is with guys, both trad shooters and compound shooters, who will down talk other archers equipment because they use it!

As far as the 2 way street goes, you could say But the also could be said about compound hunters who want to express their opinions!

As far as let-off goes, I have heard that also, and I don't like hearing those stories, and heck, I shoot 80% let-off. If someone is standing with their bow drawn for 5 minutes waiting for a deer to present a shot, then they are getting fatigue on their arms and that will affect their accuracy! That isn't the bows fault though, that is the shooters fault! I shoot 80% let-off, but I wait for the deer to be in the position I want before I draw back, if the deer moves when I draw back and I am at full draw for longer than 30 seconds, I will let down, even if I know the deer is gonna spook!

Like I said, the bickering needs to end, we are all about shooting bows! Different strokes for different folks. The compound shooters not giving respect to trad shooters needs to stop, and trad shooters saying that compound shooters are "taking the easy route", that needs to stop. It would be nice to see a place where these groups could get together and hunt together without bashing each others equipment! For the most part, trad shooters don't bash compound shooters, but the same thing can be said in reverse. There are bad apples in all groups, and these are the ones that always seem to get the spotlight. Judging one group by a few bad apples isn't going to give someone the best/actual view of the sport!