For those of you who worry about getting the best price, keep in mind that VERY few shops, whether PRO or otherwise, have a 'published' price list. If the shop wants to give their 'preferred'/'good' customers a break on certain labor charges, that's their prerogative.

If you want to shop around to save a dollar here and there, you would surely find it hard to swallow in knowing that you're being charged a little extra on certain issues. But then, HOW would you know? As there are usually no set charges on labor rates. If you think for a minute that the labor rates aren't kept somewhat flexible by shops, you're not dealing with the real world. And, if you think that this will only occur in the archery business, wake up.

The bottom line is that you should value a good PRO Shop, just like a good plumber, electrician, or doctor.; if you are fortunate enough to have one. If you respect them, and they know it, they should respect you and treat you accordingly. If you try to USE them, expect to be treated accordingly. I'm not talking about small issues, I'm talking about blatant issues. And, we're not talking about just one issue, it usually takes a cumulative effort to establish a bad relationship with anyone.

As a paying customer, I do.

Not possible, that is why thay are called mail order .

A lot of places they are free, you pay for the oil and the filter, the trick here is once your in the shop you might buy something else.And BTW, I don't own a BMW, that's a yuppie car isnt it?

[quote][I can point out 3 closed bow shops within 15 minutes of my house that TRIED to be everyone's "Friend" and work for free/quote]

No one said try to be a friend, more so if you sell it include installation, suggested retail will allow that in most cases, if not charge a few $ but be up front with it.

In this senario I would call WalMart the catalog store because of price and the fancy big screen store as the pro shop, you said what I said above, the price is built in.

You calling me a union guy [X(]? Never happen

Now some quotes from Len:

No one said be my friend unless I missed it. I for one do not ask for a proprietor to be my friend, I ask him for customer service. If I go to him and purchase an item that is priced $30 or so higher then wherever I expect it to be installed. I buy a bowling ball at a pro shop and they drill it for no charge, it's included in the price of the ball, buy the ball on line and it is much cheaper. By the way I do not bowl .

But you got his bussissnes if not only for one sale. That's one more sale you otherwise would not have gotten.

I assume you are talking "after the sale and the customer returns at a later date with a problem. If my assumption is right there should be a fee unless it's warrented. There should be no problem at the onset

You are makeing more by charging suggested retail or in some cases more. You will have people that walk out with the purchase and those that carry their bow into the shop and want it installed, pretty much an even wash I would think, but then I'm not in the bussisness. Mind you Len I am not baggering you, just stating my opinions or debating if you will .

In other words cater to the rich and stick it to the not so rich []

It costs them money why should they give it away? Do you pay for extra Pepporoni on your pizza? It's a buisness you have to charge people if it cost you money.

My local bow shop is owned by a guy who has one national once and placed second quite a few times.

I pay a little more there then I would at Dicks Sporting goods or any other chain. Why? I found out that my son was left eye dominate after he had been shooting his new Hoyt Banhsee for a few weeks. He order him a new left handed bow switched the limbs and didin't charge me any thing extra.No chain would have done that. One thing he hates is when a guy comes in with a bow he bought somewhere else and wants him to set it up. He does it but he charges a good hourly rate and I can't blame him.

Don't expect anything for free that you wouldn't give for free. If your employer asks you to work an extra hour you expect to get paid, right.

The bow shop where I bought my mathews from, the owner of the shop would often give me breaks on the small things and adjustments, and such. But now he is no longer in business, and I don't really know why he went under for sure but I do know it was financial reasons, and when you went in the shop, it always seemed really busy! But, I say if you are a loyal customer, I don't think a little break every now and then will hurt.

Charlies, I think he is talking about installing the peep sight or rest not throwing it in with the bow.
I've been dealing with the same pro-shop for 0ver 30 years. If I buy something there they usually install it for free. They also have an indoor range and issue a range card good for about 12 hours with the purchase of a new bow. They treat me well and in turn I will pay a little extra there for an item than at a chain store. I also refer customers to them because of the good service and their knowledge. Just a good way of doing busuness.

The shop i go to does not charge you anything to put stuff on your bow if you buy from him but, if you didn't then yes he chareges you $15.00 to put on or set up...

I bought my bow from him and he set it up and helped me tune it for nothing....
Part of doing bussiness...

The #1 thing here CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.. If the customer doesnt feel that you took the time to help him/her with their needs then do you really think they will come back? Heck NO... I know i wouldn't..

Thats part of the reason i drive 50 miles one way to go to the shop that i go to now.. I have an archery shop 8 miles down the road from me but the all mighty dollar got to their head.. They forgot what CUSTOMER SATISFACTION means..
Unless you know them they don't take much time to help you with anything...

The guy i go to now has over 40yrs in bussiness and pro archer...
Just to make my point bout customer satisfaction, Once on a sat (he closes at 5) He stayed till 10:00pm with me helping me tune my setup and answered all my ?'s that i had....I felt bad cause he closes at 5 and i told him i would come back monday, He told me NO, i don't want you leaving here unless you are happy and comfortable with how your bow shoots...

From that day on he was going to be the one that got my bussiness..
Been going there now for 5yrs and counting...[:-]

I try to stay as loyal as possible to my local archery shop. Sometimes, they just don't have what I'm looking for! The products they do have, they sell very reasonably. I understand that I could buy them cheaper at places like Cabela's or Bass Pro, but there's something to say about walking into a store, touching, feeling, installing and walking out the door with a product. I think what all archery shops have got to realize is that they are in competition with places like I just mentioned. Therefore, they must rely on Customer Service to get people back in their door. My local archery shop does a great job with that.
The one thing I hate is when I walk into one of several other archery shops in my area and they treat me like an outcast because i didn't buy my bow from them or my bow is not the brand that they carry. It is a shame! There is an archery shop in my town that could be one of the best, but they look down on you when you do not shoot Hoyt's!! Don't misunderstand me, I think Hoyt makes awesome bows (always have and always will). I've owned several and just bought my wife a Cybertech (because, at the time, I thought it was the best bow for HER). I now shoot Mathews and have for the past 5 years. They have cut their own throats when it comes to the Mathews shooters around here. Like me, most of them spend lots of money on all sorts of hunting accessories, but most of them go elsewhere.
The one thing that all businesses must realize is the need for Customer Service will never go away no matter how cheap or how many products they carry.

mdbohuntr:

It appears that we have touched a nerve. Your responses are typical of many who shop nowadays with the big chains/catalogs. It's sad that we always hear across the country about that PRO Shop who could fix anything and suddenly is no longer there. It is sad that new people getting into the sport don't have a clue to what is right and wrong about their equipment because there are usually no experts at the mass merchants. It is sad that some people have to travel or send their equipment hundreds to thousands of miles for PROfessional service. It was both sad and eye-opening to me at a recent seminar to have the number of people in attendance who wanted to learn more about the archery store profession. I applaud those who attended and hope that they learned enough to make them more PROfessional in their communities. I applaud them for wanting to deal with a lot of potential customers who want them to scrape and claw to make a decent living in this industry. I hope that they are all successful in spite of the odds. Why do I say "in spite of the odds"? Because we are loosing the PRO Shops steadily like we have lost a lot of the compassionate professions.

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WHO says it's part of doing business?
As a paying customer, I do.

Then you as "a paying customer" are willing to accept the worth of your purchase. I respect that.

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IF it were part of doing business the catalog places would deliver and install
Not possible, that is why thay are called mail order .

Yes, we know that's not possible; however, we (PRO Shops) are expected to be competitive on price AND suck up the labor. I won't/can't afford to work for less per hour than a catalog clerk. That's like asking me to work at the same labor rate as my 16 year old daughter! Sorry, the rest of my family can't accept that - daughter included, since I subsidize her income.

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your oil changes would be free and every service on that BMW would also be free

A lot of places they are free, you pay for the oil and the filter, the trick here is once your in the shop you might buy something else.And BTW, I don't own a BMW, that's a yuppie car isnt it?

I've been talking about those who ONLY come in for that specialty item/service and I never see them again. That is unless I walk into the local mass merchant or when they come in with all new equipment that they bought elsewhere that won't perform. I'm not saying that you should buy everything from your local PRO Shop. Heck, I've stopped selling things like clothing, boots, blinds, and other items where price is the only factor. I have taught and settled into the fact that my PRO status should be kept in the market where PRO service is needed. When I see a bow bought at the basement price that is too long a draw length, the wrong bow for the purpose intended/needed, and totally set up and tuned incorrectly, then I have a problem with not being able to make a decent living doing the job of correcting all the problems.

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[I can point out 3 closed bow shops within 15 minutes of my house that TRIED to be everyone's "Friend" and work for free/quote]

No one said try to be a friend, more so if you sell it include installation, suggested retail will allow that in most cases, if not charge a few $ but be up front with it.

You'd be surprised at how many 'customers' think that they can get a better price if a 'friendship' is conveyed. We had a local taxidermist who placed a big sign in his shop that friendships were not allowed between September 15th to January 31st (our hunting season). Davidmil came in as a customer and is now my friend and I choose to give him breaks. He hates me for it and I won't change. Why do I cherish his friendship whenever I can? There are many reasons; but, here are a few. He has been there when all the chips are down. He understands business and gives constructive advise on it and other things. He guts and drags my deer. Couldn't resist, Dave. I couldn't handle all of my customers being my 'friend'.

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You buy a TV at Walmart they don't install it and hook it up to your cable etc etc. They may at some fancy Big Screen store... but the price is built in.

In this senario I would call WalMart the catalog store because of price and the fancy big screen store as the pro shop, you said what I said above, the price is built in.

The problem here is that many don't distinguish between the 'catalog store' and the 'big screen store'. They've come to expect the same charges from each. That's really the dilemma.

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I would expect a "union guy" to know such things.Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck.

You calling me a union guy ? Never happen

Then this may explain a lot.

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Now some quotes from Len:

Now I'll address your concerns about me directly.

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I tried the 'friend' form of persuasion with a lot of customers when I first opened my business. It DOESN'T work if you want to stay in business.

No one said be my friend unless I missed it. I for one do not ask for a proprietor to be my friend, I ask him for customer service. If I go to him and purchase an item that is priced $30 or so higher then wherever I expect it to be installed. I buy a bowling ball at a pro shop and they drill it for no charge, it's included in the price of the ball, buy the ball on line and it is much cheaper. By the way I do not bowl .

I really don't see the relevance of your response. I specifically said that I tried it "when I first opened my business". It didn't work and I really hope that I didn't imply anything specifically towards you.

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I've had customers come into the store to get those 'specialty' items that the big chains/catalogs don't carry; or to get service that surely doesn't appear in the big chains/catalogs. After they get what they want and complain about the prices charged, they cater to the big chains/catalogs for all their other needs.

But you got his bussissnes if not only for one sale. That's one more sale you otherwise would not have gotten.

The business that I was referring to was that which basically HAS to come to me. Believe it or not, there are cases where this happens. For instance, I had one guy call me recently about a crossbow problem. My price on the part was $22 where he could get it at the mass merchant for $20. He then had a 'friend' replace the part for FREE. The bow got totally screwed up. Yes, he could have sent it back to the manufacturer and waited weeks for to/from transport and waiting for the manufacturer to get to it; but, I could have it done in hours. He came into the shop with broken bow in hand. The part he paid $2 less for was destroyed. Other parts were destroyed because part one had been put on incorrectly. He had to buy part one from me to replace part one damaged in the installation and then had to buy several other parts damaged by the faulty installation. To sum it up, the job cost him $66 in parts and labor. If the $20 he originally spend were added along with the time wasted and embarrassment, I'd say he realizes the worth of a good PRO Shop. Then again, maybe not.

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I'm expected to give the best service possible when a problem arises, only charge a nominal fee

I assume you are talking "after the sale and the customer returns at a later date with a problem. If my assumption is right there should be a fee unless it's warrented. There should be no problem at the onset

No, I don't mean "after the sale....". As I tell many customers, my service never stops. It continues through the sale and way beyond. My advice is given on all forms archery. It doesn't just stop with the equipment and will be given to anyone who is willing to listen. When I do provide a specific PROfessional service that I believe merits a fee, I expect the fee to be paid without question. If you really knew how I operated, you'd know how much free advice and service that I give. I'm just asking to be compensated for what I feel is fair.

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and not allowed to make more than the big chains/catalogs on other items like bow cases, sights, rests, etc. If I am competitive with the big chains/catalogs, then I CAN'T charge for proper installation. GIVE ME A BREAK!

You are makeing more by charging suggested retail or in some cases more. You will have people that walk out with the purchase and those that carry their bow into the shop and want it installed, pretty much an even wash I would think, but then I'm not in the bussisness. Mind you Len I am not baggering you, just stating my opinions or debating if you will .

There it is, you're assuming that I'm "charging suggested retail or in some cases more". Man, are you FAR from the truth. The "more" really takes the cake! If you care to stop by I'd be glad to show you time and time again where I have to be way below "suggested retail". I belong to a buying group and have to relinquish some of those savings by buying through them to be competitive. The statement "but then I'm not in the bussisness" is surreal. No disrespect, but you wouldn't survive in this business if you tried to charge "suggested retail" or "more".

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If I have a good customer whose budget can manage for me to make a buck, I will service that customer like a 'preferred' customer. If I have a customer who only contacts me when he/she can't get the part or proper service anywhere else, then I will charge a little extra. After all, no matter what I charge won't be cheap enough; so, why worry about it

In other words cater to the rich and stick it to the not so rich

There you go, as Bill O'Rielly would say, and 'the spin stops here". I didn't say any such thing. I merely want to get properly paid for my services. If I elect to charge a good customer less for a specific service performed, that's my call. Did I charge the other customer more? No, I charged that customer the going rate, but some would falsely thing that I charged him more. Is the glass half full or half emty??? Maybe I didn't word it such that it couldn't be misunderstood. For that I may be negligent; but, I want it understood that I take care of my good customers royally.

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Mind you Len I am not baggering you, just stating my opinions or debating if you will.

I don't consider what you've posted as badgering. And please don't take any offense to my responses. They are just that, my opinions based on my tenure. It actually enlightens me as to how what I post can be interpreted. As I always say, communication is our best and worst enemy. Badgering is something that a few on this and other forums think they have a license to conduct. You're definitely not considered in this category.

Have a great day.

Not al all. Hell, if I were closer to you than 135 miles I would do all my bussisness with you, I have delt with and bought from you and feel I know what your all about. My opinions were a generality that was not to taken as singleing you out. I understand your plight and I do support the pro shop. When I get back to Md I thought I would have found my shop that is if you still want my bussisness . All's well my friend .

There is a mail-order catalog that actaully does deliver and install. Its not a hunting or archery catalog, its a skateboarding/snowboarding catalog. If you want, you can choose all the components for your skateboard and they set it up before it gets delivered at no cost. I have proved the 'impossible'[][8D]