opinions are just that--OPINIONS--sometimes we agree & sometimes we don't--PERIOD.

Lab-Man - I am probably the worst here to question the ethics of others. Why ? Because its important, no, its VITAL, to the survival of bowhunting. Zaft is a seasoned bowhunter, a target shooter - he knows a good shot when he gets it and he full well knew this wasn't a good shot.

What we know is this - Zaft took a very poor shot on a world class size deer. He said himself that the animal sidd not appear to be be mortally wounded - he hit the deer high and too far back - pass through, a couple of drops of blood and that was it. He looked for a total of what, 4 or 5 hours for it, over a span of 24 hours and then discovers a landowner nearby (how close anyway ?) has found the carcass of a big buck in his field. Zaft claims it, builds a very self-oriented web site, and North American Whitetail publishes the story.

Now, Zaft is going to make a lot of money on this ( I don't really blame him for that ), he's tooting his own horn and is trying to claim this deer as the new world record. I have stepped outside, looked around, and then stepped back in. Zaft cannot prove he killed this deer, plain and simple. His stroy being published like that makes it look like that bowhunters shoot deer all the time and lose them, only to find their horns later and brag about it. Thats not what I want bowhunting to be, and if thats what it is, then yeah, I'll call it unethical, because it IS and I can see very well how the non-hunting public can be swayed by the anti-hunting groups to vote to ban hunting.

Lab-Man - I guess you're all cool with Zaft and his story ?

stealthy - Very good post. I agree that everyone should be concerned about the ethics of every bowhunter. We need to police ourselves from the inside, if we don't we won't like the results.

"Character is doing the right thing when no one is looking."

55#Recurve: You're a silver tongued rascal for sure.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I couldn't have said it better. Lab man doesn't want it that way. You're thinking is too logical.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> ie We question... therefore we are concerned about it ethically. He just doesn't like our conclusions... it didn't go according to HIS ethical standards.

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Lab-Man - I am probably the worst here to question the ethics of others. Why ? Because its important, no, its VITAL, to the survival of bowhunting. Zaft is a seasoned bowhunter, a target shooter - he knows a good shot when he gets it and he full well knew this wasn't a good shot.

What we know is this - Zaft took a very poor shot on a world class size deer. He said himself that the animal sidd not appear to be be mortally wounded - he hit the deer high and too far back - pass through, a couple of drops of blood and that was it. He looked for a total of what, 4 or 5 hours for it, over a span of 24 hours and then discovers a landowner nearby (how close anyway ?) has found the carcass of a big buck in his field. Zaft claims it, builds a very self-oriented web site, and North American Whitetail publishes the story.

Now, Zaft is going to make a lot of money on this ( I don't really blame him for that ), he's tooting his own horn and is trying to claim this deer as the new world record. I have stepped outside, looked around, and then stepped back in. Zaft cannot prove he killed this deer, plain and simple. His stroy being published like that makes it look like that bowhunters shoot deer all the time and lose them, only to find their horns later and brag about it. Thats not what I want bowhunting to be, and if thats what it is, then yeah, I'll call it unethical, because it IS and I can see very well how the non-hunting public can be swayed by the anti-hunting groups to vote to ban hunting.

Lab-Man - I guess you're all cool with Zaft and his story ?
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Gentlemen,

Nowhere have I (nor have you) read in what I have written, that I am cool with the Zaft controversy! I am very simply stating that I do not feel it is ethically (nor politically)correct to throw out so many &quot;rumored&quot; inuendos of what did truly happen with the man's(Zaft) shot. Was his shot poor? I was not there in his stand to see. Thus, I do not feel it ethical to say! Point-blank! Has any one of you totally remembered EVERY aspect of what happened AFTER taking your shot at a very nice, record class buck? I think not. The adrenalin is rushing so fast, no human can entirely remember all aspects of the &quot;moment&quot;! I agree Mr. Zaft is a bit self-centered. A bit egotistical. A bit pompous. But, again, take a look at what has been generated solely from my &quot;post&quot;. Take a good hard, non-biased look here, fellow bowhunters!!!
&quot;try on our penny loafers&quot;? Drinking too much &quot;lab samples again&quot;? &quot;No one is perfect&quot;? &quot;It didn't go towards HIS ethical stds&quot;?
Cardeer is the most correct in his statement, &quot;just did not make a good judgement call&quot;. It's that plain & simple!
Come on guys! When you stand up, try at least to be &quot;open-minded&quot; to all reason!
Let me ask you, if you knew I was a &quot;colored human being&quot; what then would you have to say about my &quot;post&quot;....gentlemen?

Guess I'll slip on my pennyloafers and sit back and have a tall, cold &quot;lab sample&quot; now.

&quot;Lab-Man&quot;

Lab-man as for your views on the Zaft issue, I'm with you. I agree with your point of view. It is so easy for everyone to sit on this board and say what they &quot;think&quot; happened or what they heard but we really don't know the whole story, since none of us have been able to ask Zaft these questions directly. Sure Zaft might have made a bad decision on the shot, but I wasn't there. I think alot of this debate stems from jealousy. Maybe its not jealousy but I've noticed that there are alot of people in the world who can't stand for someone else to really be successful, therefore they belittle the persons achievment anyway they can. I know there are some people here who think Zaft shouldn't be able to claim the deer and they don't feel this way out of jealousy or hate, but on the other hand there are many who do feel that way, they just can't admit it. I know this because I've seen it happen all too often on this board when a story or a pic of a big deer shows up.

As for one of your last comments <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Let me ask you, if you knew I was a &quot;colored human being&quot; what then would you have to say about my &quot;post&quot;....gentlemen?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I could care less what color you are and don't see what that has to do with anything?

What color ,purple.I'd freak out.

Are you saying because of the way you wrote your post you couldn't be colored?

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Lab-man as for your views on the Zaft issue, I'm with you. I agree with your point of view. It is so easy for everyone to sit on this board and say what they &quot;think&quot; happened or what they heard but we really don't know the whole story, since none of us have been able to ask Zaft these questions directly. Sure Zaft might have made a bad decision on the shot, but I wasn't there. I think alot of this debate stems from jealousy. Maybe its not jealousy but I've noticed that there are alot of people in the world who can't stand for someone else to really be successful, therefore they belittle the persons achievment anyway they can. I know there are some people here who think Zaft shouldn't be able to claim the deer and they don't feel this way out of jealousy or hate, but on the other hand there are many who do feel that way, they just can't admit it. I know this because I've seen it happen all too often on this board when a story or a pic of a big deer shows up.

As for one of your last comments <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Let me ask you, if you knew I was a &quot;colored human being&quot; what then would you have to say about my &quot;post&quot;....gentlemen?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I could care less what color you are and don't see what that has to do with anything?
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You are Truly a ethically honest, politically intelligent, and morally astute human being!
And, socially correct in stating color has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it!! I applaud your intelligence and candor regarding your posted reply!!
As for the &quot;color&quot; equation entering this, I am merely supporting the fact that these forums are not the basis for supporting unsubstantiated rights or wrongs, goods or bads, etc. etc. The decision to allow this &quot;kill&quot; to be a new &quot;Registered World Record&quot; albeit good or bad, is solely and unequivacably up to the Pope & Young investigated decision to do so.
I have personally been in this position Mr. Zaft is in (obviously not &quot;World&quot; tho) with regards to people(even fellow bowhunters) rumoring, belittling, and even lying of a P&Y record buck I shot years ago. If any hunter has had this happen to his record size kill, you know how it takes the pride and sense of accomplishment out of what you know would happen sooner or later (record kill) if your dedication persists! To even fathom a thought someone would pull a low-life stunt as to &quot;dig up&quot; some sort of untruth simply to try to thwart your once in a lifetime kill from entering a record book, is one malicious individual!!!

&quot;Lab-Man&quot;

Colour means nothing to me, Take a look I live in canada, and Im 21, I wasn't brought up as a racist. As for that comment, what did it have to do with the Zaft buck? since I know very little about the story. Lab, I am ignorant to certain aspects of life, but ethically I am not in the least ignorant or foolish. When I was 8years old, I really wanted this GIJOE action figure named snake eye's, my mom was buying me school supplies and told me I couldn't have it. Not knowing any better I stole the GIJOE, my mom figured out I had stole it when I got home, and she put the fear of god into me(good thing my dad wasn't there at the time), then I was brought back to the store, and the manager also put the fear of god into me. I never stole again, nor would I ever again. I made a mistake and learned quickly from it. Thats what ethics is all about. There are certain groups of people, that I don't like in this world, and certain groups I can't stand to be near. But that's my choice, does it make me not ethical as a person. I think not, I just don't care about what they do, and they can go and do it, as long as it does not affect me. I'm a simple man, I want to get married to a girl that loves me, and me her, I want to have children god willing. I want to have a hunter outfitting business for my lively hood, because Im affraid to say it, but money is what makes the world go round. If I am skilled enough I would like to go to the olympics for archery. I want no fame, because once you are famous you get picked apart by ever person on this planet,extremist groups or whatever. I want no power, as long as I have the right to hunt, fish, marry and have family. I heard a semi true philosophy once, &quot;what we don't like about other peoples character (or tend to scrutinize) is actually a mirror of what we don't like about ourselves&quot;. The way I see this statment being relevent, is PETA and whoever questioning our ethics as hunters, when obviously they don't want to look at there own ethics or character. Our scrutinization of other hunters, makes us look very closely to our own backyard LAB-MAN , but we can only go so far before we realize its been taken far enough, and then leave it.
That is what I think, and heck I will be as closed minded as I want, as long as Im not hurting others, and they aren't trying to hurt me. IE, PETA GET A LIFE.
good shooting.
Dylan

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