Atlas - you have me very curious

Where do you hunt in NY that a basket rack six or eight is all you can hope for?

Or you can hunt for 40 days and see 12 deer??

I didn't know this state has such poor deer populations in areas.

My exact thoughts but I don't know the area or the NY deer herd so I never bothered to ask.

"If its brown its down" is my motto

That is what I was getting at.


Agreed.........unfortunately even if I let them walk they are not going to reach maturity.

I do. This statement of yours doesn't really go along with your earlier comments about what kind of satisfaction can a experienced guy get from shooting a 1 1/2 basket rack.


My assumptions were based on the content and tone of your post........and I don't think they were off base.........based on that. Obviously in reality they were wrong. You didn't come off as a guy who has been where the grass isn't greener though.


Again, from the comments you made it read like you can't see why anyone would take a young buck......then you say you saw 60 of them this year. Seeing how I can't even imagine seeing 60 bucks in one year I figured you thought everyone had such good fortune.



If I had that luxury I may just do the same. Glad you have the choice........also glad you realize that not everyone does.

I live in Western NY in the suburbs of Buffalo. I primarily hunt 2 state forests one of which is 1,500 acres and the other is 3,000 acres but really cut in half by a gorge.

I have hunted the 1,500 acre forest for 17 years and know every inch of that place. My father has hunted for 40 years, my brothers 23 and 19 years respectively. In that time only my brother has killed what anyone would call a "trophy" it is a big 'ol 8 ptr with huge mass and large palmated antlers. His picture is still on the wall of the deer check station as one of the all time greats. That's it. My dad has a bunch of 8's and under.......he has killed so many deer I lose count. He has never even seen a big boy in those woods in 40 years. We know just about every guy that hunts those hills and it's the same take every year.........8's, 7's 6's, 4's, spikes, buttons. Nothing that even comes close to what most would consider a wall hanger.

The 3,000 acres I have hunted a little more in the last few years because my friend and his family go there and it is fun to have a cabin to relax in. That is where I killed the 13 pointer this year and even there the old timers say it's the biggest deer they have seen come out of there in 40+ years.

I have to drive 1 hour to get to each spot. Yea, I could drive to Steuben county or some other places known for the big bad boys(Allegehny State Park) etc......but I have a wife and a home and a business that I own. I can't go on week long hunts or drive 4 hours one way to hunt a day......nor do I want to. Where I am these are the closest places I can go and still hunt with all the people I enjoy hunting with. All the private farms I ask some say OK to me but that's it......no friends and no family. I tell them I on't hunt alone and they say they don't want a crowd of trucks........I say thanks and leave. I won't leave my friends and family just for a shot at some better land.

We enjoy our hunting very much. This year sucked big time but that isn't the norm for us. We kill our share and fill the freezer and are happy with what we have. In the last 2 years I have taken a 4, 6, and 13 pointers and a mature doe. That is great as far as I am concerned. Was it great to kill that big buck when no one else for miles has ever even seen one like him??? You bet your arse!!!! Am I going to forget the last 17 years and pretend I am suddenly transformed into a Primos video full of big bucks now?? Nope. I had my moment in the sun......my 15 minutes of fame......next year I will fill my tags just like I always have. every chance I get.


I know people will read this and think to themselves....."There are big deer there, he just isn't finding them". Well, like I said not only have we been there for so long......we know and hear about every deer taken from where we hunt. If there were huge deer there.......SOMEONE would get them during all the relentless gun drives year after year.......and they don't.

Hopefully this year was just a bad dream..........because if it wasn't, we are REALLY gonna be hurting next year!!

So basically to make a long story short Rack Attack..............my year blew so bad that if you had called me and said "Wanna hunt tomorrow??" I would have drove across the state out of sheer desperation.........and to see your cute little deer carrier on your truck

I have yet to talk to anyone in my area that didn't share my misfortunes in the woods this year.

Fingers crossed

The bottom line is you have to hold off shooting small bucks in order to get big ones. Shooting does helps to improve the out-of-whack buck/doe ratio and puts meat on the table while prolonging the bucks life. However, getting other hunters on board in your hunting area is where the problems begin. My neighbor finally gave in this year and, after holding out to the last 10 minutes of the season for a buck, shot a big doe. However, there is a bunch of redneck brothers on the neighboring farm who shoot everything that is brown. They don't care about the law at all and are belligerent with anyone who confronts them (like me). They take shots at every deer they see and wound a number of them. They're the ones that give all hunters a bad name and ruin any effort to improve the herd.

I hesitate to jump into this but I have been thinking about starting a post like this for some time.First let me say I have been hunting deer since 1958 hunting with a bow since 1964 I am disabled due to 2 heartattacks.
The biggest deer I have ever taken is an 8 point that scored 130 over the years I have saw l;arger but was not fortunate enough to be able to get them. For the first 10 or even 15 years I was lucky to see 10 deer in a season in places where I could hunt Oh I saw deer and plenty of them on private farms where the only word they knew was NO period. So I took a few small bucks spikes and 4 points. No one I had even heard of practiced management.Then through the 70's things started to pick up deer became more plentyful and some hunters decided to start passing on small bucks and that is their choice. Now here where I hunt 98% of the land is private and the majority of the hunters have to work for a living some are like me and have plenty of time but no land of their own or not in good health there are some nice bucks around not a lot but some because like all the other places in WV 95% of the hunters take the first buck they see. I have passed on small bucks several times to never see them again due to another hunter taking them and to me that is his right every one in the woods are not worried about hugh horns or a deer that is mature they simply want a deer and if it is gun season an a spike walks by then so be it and I will defend his right to do that forever. It was my choosing to let him walk knowing full well what would happen if someone else saw him. The first day of season this year I let a 3pt walk the next day he was dead.
If you live where you see 10 or 20 or even more bucks in a season then consider yourself very very lucky personally I have hunted a lot of days this year I have saw 1 3pt and a spike in season. before season came in I saw a 5 and a 6 both scrub bucks and they both were killed in the first week of bowseason.
To me it seems to come down to this over 90% of the hunters in the woods will take the first buck they see now dp the math that leaves about 10% who will always let the smaller ones pass this is a democracy I would never be in favor of a law that is for 10% just so they can hunt big deer get a life hunt them if you want let all you want pass by but do not try to force your way on the other man. Just be glad that you have he right to hunt and plenty of game to hunt for. Do not slam a fellow hunter because he is proud of his spike or 6pt be glad for him and if you are fortunate enough to get that big one then that is wonderful but I do know this the human being is never satisfied if you get one that scores 170 then you want one that is 200 and there is nothing wrong with that but when the thrill of harvesting a deer of any kind leaves me then I will hang it up forever.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It is really sad sometimes when I read hunters comments about smaller bucks and does as if they would be embarrassed to shoot them or no one should get excited about seeing them.

It will be a very sad day for me when a deer of any kind comes into my view from my treestand and I don't get excited. I feel very sorry for guys that can only get worked up by a huge buck........that isn't hunting, it's thrill seeking......may as well jump out of a plane or bungie jump instead.

I killed the biggest buck of my life this year and next year if a doe or small buck crosses my path my heart will be pounding as always........I wouldn't want it any other way.

it can be very frustrating when your neighboring landowners shoot every little buck that crosses the fence, but by talking with your neighbors, sometimes you can get them to see the light, sure sometimes you'll run into a harda$$, who wants to shoot anything, in that case maybe your best bet is to take a small buck if that is what you want......in conclusion it is your decision, if you see a small buck, i wouldn't shoot him just because you think you neighbor might or will, who knows maybe he'll put the slip on that neighbor and come cruising past your stand next year a year older and bigger!

This is very strange for me. I'm stuck in the middle of this thread. I am all for QDM and stress in fact plead with my neighboring hunting parties to work together to grow the herd so we have big bucks around. After 5 years of everyone playing by the same rules, we finally have a little something going here. I agree the best way to accomplish that is keep after your neighbors. I stay in constant communication with them and we now have a good relationship and some good bucks around.
On the other hand, I can see the other side of it too. The first half of my hunting life is similar to what atlas is going through and I can relate. I hate to say it but someplaces there is NO chance of taking a mature buck. I'm kinda speaking hypocritical here but my emotions on this are split. I work so hard and try to encourage everyone to practice QDM and let the little bucks go. But there are situations where it simply doesn't make sense.

I agree with this statement except for when you've hunted a piece of land for years and have never seen or heard of a big mature buck being taken. If you've scouted all year every year and have never seen a big buck, then what are you supposed to do? What are you out there for? You still would like to take a buck.

While I do agree with you atlas, my heart races with every deer, but unfortunately it's human nature for some. The more proficient a person becomes at taking big bucks and the more deer you harvest, it's just natural that the only thing that will really get you going (for some) is a big buck.