I have stayed out of this for the most part – but man – where do you come up with this stuff???

You just flat out stated that I am not a hunter – I am a thrill seeker. You seem to be convinced that you hunt the toughest, hardest land in the country, and all “us” trophy hunters have popes hiding behind every tree.

You seem incapable of thinking outside your box. Because you do not possess, either the talent, dedication, knowledge, or as you say the deer herd to ever become a trophy hunter you seem to love to bash those that do. And talk about hypocritical…….You finally shot a trophy buck and you miss no opportunity to talk about how great a deer it was on any post you can. You have stated many times how great a feeling and experience it has been. You have bathed and continue to bath in the “THRILL” of shooting a trophy. You have also resolved to the idea that this was a once in a lifetime chance for you and because of this, it probably will. If you so chose to raise the bar so to speak – spend time scouting every week of the year – make the sacrifices it takes to put mature bucks down year after year, you would understand that we are “hunters”, and many are probably much more dedicated to the sport than you are. I doubt you have any idea what some hunters sacrifice and do for the passion of this sport – and I think you are better off not knowing

There is no thrill in walking through the woods for hours in the dead of freezing winter marking trees and scouting. There is no thrill in cutting limbs, covered in ticks in 90 deg weather day after day. Hundreds of hours wasted in the off season it seems – I could of just bungie jumped……….eh

You can continue to convince yourself that trophy hunters are made by the area they hunt and not the commitment and actions they take. You will continue to be wrong.

And don’t feel sorry for me – that thrill you have been basking in for the past few weeks – I have felt many, many times – and I bust my a$$ all year to insure it will happen again.

Sorry dude - but you rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm glad your heart pounds like mine when a deer appears in front of you......after all isn't that why we are out there?? I hope I NEVER lose that feeling.

Once again this is just my opinion but being proficient at killing big bucks is very dependent on the land you hunt........am I proficient?? I killed the biggest deer in the woods in the last 45 years...........took me 17 years.......but in that span I also killed many bucks that are the "norm" for these woods. Our "norm" is a 4-6 pt with an 8 pt being above avg.

Now a guy in Kansas may kill a bunch of 110-130 bucks over the years and bang one big 'ol 170+..........is he more proficient then me?? We both killed the "norm" for our woods and one big elusive monster for the area. Just different "norms" to pick from.

My father, brothers, and me have killed so many deer that I couldn't even count..........my dad has so many 4-8 racks on plaques that my mom is gonna kill him. Of course they are in Florida now so those racks look pretty darn sweet to the beach crowds I still get a lump in my throat when a doe walks out. I get just as much of a thrill and satisfaction from taking a mature doe as any deer I have taken. I just don't really see how people are so much more pleased by the harvest because it has a couple little horns on it's head. It was really nice taking that big buck.......don't get me wrong......especially because VERY FEW people around here can say the same........but if that deer was a doe I would still have been thrilled just to have a successful hunt.

I sometimes used to think that I maybe downplayed the value of "trophies" because I had no realistic chance of getting one..........little sour grapes maybe.........but now I have one, and a GREAT one to boot!!.....and my opinion hasn't changed. It was great, and something I won't ever forget probably due to all that went into it........but next year if I tag a nice big doe and a 4 or 6 ptr I will be one happy and satisfied hunter. Putting a big buck on the wall will have no effect on me pulling the trigger or release on a smaller buck in the future.........If it did I may as well stay home because I sure as hell ain't gonna see a buck bigger then the one I killed this year. LOL......I am not waiting another 17 years to take a shot!!!

Say you were fishing and caught a 20 lb Northern Pike..........would then only get excited by another 20 pounder and not want to fish for anything less then him??

Not me..........I say keep casting!!!!........If a big boy hits.......reel him in!!!......if a small guy hits.....reel him in!!! The most important thing is to enjoy the fishing.

All this banter about saving bucks so that they can grow....big enough to shoot. Makes me think that if one was really concerned about having big bucks around they wouldn't shoot the biggest one out there they would let him reproduce.....
You guys make me laugh sometimes.

rack attack,

I'm not sure if that post was directed at me or not. If it was let me just say I in NO WAY.......repeat NO WAY diminish anyones hunting ability. I clearly understand that there is not a P&Y buck around every corner. I also realize even if there was there are no guarantees. In fact I think it takes more dedicated skillful hunters perhaps than me to hunt a trophy. The buck is more mature and smarter and walking around in the woods at 5+ years old for a reason. I know ... believe me I know the work involved in pre-season scouting. Whether I'm going to get a trophy buck or not, I'm sure the heck going to put every effort into ensuring I'm going to give myself the best possible chance. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the fence. Again I don't know if that post was meant for me or not, but just thought I'd clear up my position.

By the time he is big enough to shoot he has been breeding does for 4 to 5 years. And has sired many offspring. He has done his job.

And most bucks will be "big enough to shoot" if you just let em grow older.

NY Bow - not towards you at all

I agree with that. He's already done his job and spread his genetics several times.

I think that a lot of people get fired up when it comes to a subject like this. I think people kind of jump on the defensive when guys say that shooting little ones just doesn't do it for them and then the guys on the other end of the spectrum say that they would hate to see the day when a deer kill doesn't get them going. It's not really about that. It's about being out in nature and doing what we all love to do. It's like saying "One man's trash is another guy's treasure". Who's right? Who's wrong? Not really anyone. It all depends on what we want our or your future to be in the woods. If you like it the way it is.....keep doing what your doing. If you want things to change or IMO "get better" change something(QDM). I've seen my land change dramatically after we have adopted our "rules and regs" and that was just 3-4 years ago. But hey, if it's not your cup of tea....then do what your doin. I've shot two bucks in my life(0 with the bow), but I have let probably 20-25 walk in 3 years with the bow. Once again just my opinion, but I have a much better time sitting in the woods and watching little bucks walk and just sit there rather than to shoot. Just does nothing for me. Sure I would be excited to have downed an animal, but I would be just as excited shooting a doe if I needed meat. Sure I like venison, but I certainly don't need it to survive. I hunt for the sport of it, to be in nature by myself, the challenge of trying to figure out whitetails and for the peace and quiet.

Ok, in my opinion here's the math:

Scenario 1:
You shoot a small buck
He shoots a small buck
2 small bucks dead

Scenario 2:
You don't shoot that small buck
He shoots that small buck
Only one buck dead

That's the way I look at it.

I shouldn't have said it isn't hunting........it's thrill seeking hunting.......where only the highest of highs will do and the neverending chase for bigger and better rages on.

If the only thing that gets you excited even a little bit is a huge buck......then Yea, that's what I did.


Your words not mine..........but yes, considering hunting pressure and deer to hunter ratio I would say it is definately not easy that's for sure. If it was I would have seen more then 12 deer and 3 of 5 friends would not be eating tags this winter when they were willing to take any deer they legally could.


I don't care what anyone else has....I care what I have. I do take exception however to someone telling me my situation is not what I say it is simply because they think they are Fred Bear reincarnated and can make huge deer appear just by walking into the trees.

Surprised it took you so long. This paragraph is so predictable when talking with someone who thinks they are the great white hunter and everyone else is just too stupid, unskilled and lazy to be as great as you are. I know you think you do all these things that no one else does and work harder then everyone else and can shoot better then all of us retards because if we say we don't share your all or nothing model of success......We really do.....but we just aren't good enough to do it so we say we don't really care.......BUT WE DO!!!

What a joke.


It was a thrill.........great experience. Check my posts from last year Rack. I gushed just as much and was equally giddy with kills of a 6, 4 and a doe. I get a thrill from every hunt I go on........especially a successful one. Sorry that you can only get excited about a record book deer but they all make me proud. Hypocritical would be me saying that after all my posts about how trophies should not make or break a hunt.........I was wrong, because now that I got one it's different!!!! I have seen the light and all hunters who don't go after wall hangers as a life's work are missing the boat!!!

Well, next year I will do the same as I always do. Take the chances I get to harvest any legal deer I have a permit for. If it has a huge rack I will be happy......if it doesn't I will be happy too. You wouldn't understand.


Geez and all these years I have wasted my time scouting and hunting when all I needed to make big bucks appear is a positive attitude.....LOL



Yet again......we all wish we could be like you right?? Give me a break. If you are done walking on water for a second let me be the first to break it to ya Rack.......If you think you are the only one who spends time in the woods all year scouting, placing stands, cutting lanes and patterning game you are sadly mistaken. Be happy that your system and efforts pay off, but don't dismiss everyone else as a lazy wanna-be slob because we don't share your same model for success come hunting season.


[sarcasm] Gee Rack all of us morons out here didn't realize you had to do stuff like that..........no wonder you are so much better then we could ever hope to be [/sarcasm]

You don't honestly believe you are the only person doing that stuff do you??

You can't kill what isn't there Rack......even you [] My dad's good friend who is an excellent woodsman and great hunter takes his son every year to Steuben County about 3-4 hours from here to hunt for wall hangers. They have 22 mounts together I think......MONSTERS!!! Guess how many racks they have mounted from our local woods?? None. Why can't these guys who are obviously capable of nailing big boys year after year do it in our local woods?? Are all the counties that produce monsters each year full of big bad trophy hunters like you........or are they full of big bad trophy deer every year?? I know you think that we are all fools and you could walk into any of our woods and drag a brute out within a year no matter what the past harvests have yielded........after all no one works as hard as you, as long as you, is as smart as you or "hunts the beds and hangs the heads" like you.

So you go right ahead and keep thinking that commitment, actions, and a positive attitude will make huge bucks appear out of thin air........and you will be wrong.


I don't feel sorry for you because you haven't felt that thrill........I feel sorry for you because that is the only thing that gives you a thrill. There is so much more to enjoy about hunting then worrying if a buck will make some meaningless book somewhere [:'(]


Man Rack, read your post and pretend someone else wrote it. Can you see how egotistic and full of yourself you sounded.......I hope so because I have never seen you post like that before and it's pretty ugly.

When did you ever here me or another guy who hunts mature bucks say they have to get a bigger deer next year. Its not all about the size of the rack - its about the maturity of a deer. I will take A 100 class mature 8 any day and be super exited. All deer get me exited - big deer get me real exited.

I thought I was the great white hunter, thats why I used to put down payments on mounts before the season started....LOL. I learned to eat tag soup - I swallowed it like a man. This is not and never was about who is better. This is about how every time you mention your hunting situation - you always have to add how little of a thrill it must be for guys who hunt in good areas. How less of a challange it is to shoot a mature deer every place else but you 3,500 acres.

I never said you where lazy or unskilled - I said you where that or had a real bad piece of land to hunt - reread my post.

I think thats great - I think no more or less of any hunter that shoots whatever the heck they want - I have never bashed or ridiculed anyone for shooting little bucks or does - If it makes you happy I am happy.

The problem between us comes from the fact that you continually elude to the fact that guys who only hunt for mature bucks are missin the boat - or don't get the whole hunting experience, and you feel sorry for them - or they are not hunters. Or they must be in Gods country where 150's are every where.

I do understand Atlas - I was like that for years. I am not saying a grew or became better - but I changed. I have many good friends that are like that - I would hunt with them any day - no better or worse than me. You seem to think I look down upon the way you hunt or what you choose to shoot - and it just ain't so. I don't ever recall saying you are not a hunter.

I can't 100% believe that - because you are always comparing your woods to "better woods" or your deer sightings to others. Or what drives other hunters into the woods every year. We have different goals - I have no problem with yours - don't now why you have such a problem with mine.

Never said its not what you say - no one ever did - thats why I don't understand why you have to find fault with others hunting situations every time you mention yours. You have on more than one occasion knocked the guy who shoots a 140 in buck country to help proove the fact of how hard your woods are - I just don't see the need. And I am much better looking than Fred.

I am - and I would of never dismissed your hunting if you didn't do the same to mine - over and over again

I wasn't really talking about me - but defending all guys who dedicate themselves to mature bucks - even if they hunt in super land. I was trying to state that these guys also bust there arse to get that 150 that you so dismiss as "just another deer".

This entire post is out of character for me and some was written in defence to being called a "non hunter". i can see where you or other may take it as walking on water - but in fact it was your constant knocking of "trophy hunters" and the constant belittling of others trophies who hunted in better land than yours that feed my response.

In over 2000 post I have never degraded any other posters deer or trophy - I have never looked down upon others situations as you have.

Of course I am not the only one that does that - but then I did not say you were not a hunter and could get the same thrill from jumping of a bridge with a rubber band tied around your ankle.

Never said I could - but then again the problem comes from the fact that for some of us the trophies are there - and according to you it is just not the same for us.

Again - never said that - don't even think its true - I may be shooting forks every year and hoping just to see a Rack - I would't doubt that for a minute. But if I did move up there and hunt your woods, I sure hope I would not bear the chip on my shoulder like you do for guys who are fortunate enough to have a better herd. For guys who have lots of deer and bucks - and have decided that because of the potential for good mature bucks - they will hold out and dedicate themselves to it.

Man I don't even know how to score a deer - honest. A member here had to tell me the right way to do it for the Mod cup. I never even concidered entering any deer - most wont make it - I don't care. Thats not what I am about.

Thats why I say you can't think outside the box - we don't all have the land you hunt. I have some good potential around me - And no its not easy - and yea I do sacrifice a lot and work very hard to be successfull. I wont knock you for shooting a basket six on your land - don't knock me for letting it go on the land I hunt - you would do the same thing if you hunted here.

I pretended someone else wrote it and you know what......I would like to hunt with that guy............sounds like a great hunter......LOL
Yea you may be right - but you threw the first punches nad maybe just maybe I am that good

Now you go back to all the post you smashed trophy hunters who hunted good woods and shot good deer - Can you see how much of a chip you have on your shoulder - can you see how you put down others to make your successes seem better.[:-]