Mathewsboy - I kinda felt sorry for you until your second post - sounds like you are as responsible for young bucks getting shot as anybody. How do you know the other 8 points shot by the "other guys" weren't just as justifiable as the ones shot by your party???

Maybe you should mature from a Mathewsboy into a Hoytman like me!LOL


Better luck next year!!

Because I know the guys that shot them.. One guy had already shot a spike, and a small fork, then shot the small 8 i had passed up..

and so on and so forth....

If it was his kids first deer, FINE... but the guy shot two small bucks last year too...

Well , if you know them so well, maybe you could get with them and form a co-operative herd management program. They would have to stop shooting young bucks, and so would your crew. The net result would be bigger bucks in the future that ALL of you would enjoy!!

Perhaps after shooting so many little bucks these guys would be ready for something better,anyhow!!

May not work, but it's worth a try. If they are on different property and don't want to change their ways, then it's just one of those things you'll have to deal with. Just keep telling yourself that there ARE big bucks in your area, and the guy who holds out for them has the best chance to get 'em, and that's you!!!

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon..........

I'd be on board with some antler restrictions here in Maryland too, but don't you think that the 3 or 4 points per side requirement, as they have in PA, is kind of pointless? The goal is to pass up 1 1/2 year old bucks, so by killing small 6 and 8 point basket racks, you'd actually be killing the best seeds for future trophy bucks.
Any experienced hunter knows what a year and a half old buck looks like. They still have that boyish look to their face and they're bones are growing faster than their muscles and their guts (I wish mine were too! ), but the unfortunate fact of the matter is that the law can't split hairs like that. They have to make a law that is simple and one that makes legal and illegal deer easy to tell apart.
Dave, you didn't mention PA's antler restrictions in particular- I'm just not sold on their guidelines and I don't know what the answer is.

Practicing QDM on large plots of public land is as productive as beating your head against a tree.

If it is your own land and you have enough of it then QDM is something you can accomplish to whatever standards you set.

I hunt public land. I don't let anything walk by that I have a tag to take. If I do they have a VERY high percentage chance of getting whacked by the next guy. Passing up deer during bow is also fruitless because they don't stand a chance once the slugs start flying.

You have to remember that not everyone goes deer hunting to bring home a big buck.

My primary goal for the seasons is always meat in the freezer. ALWAYS. If I waited for a trophy buck I would go home empty handed every year. As long as no one else is doing anything illeagal you have no right to pass judgement on them just because they don't share your ideas of how to hunt or what a trophy is.

I killed a 13 pointer this year on Thanksgiving day with a shotgun. That, and a shot at a running doe were the only chances I had this year to take a deer. I hunted countless days of archery, shotgun and muzzleloader. Saw very few deer this year......as is the story of many WNY hunters this year unfortunately. When my chances are that few and far between it better have spots on it for me to hold back.

I killed 3 deer last year.......a 6 with bow and a 4 and a doe with shotgun. I killed the 13 pointer this year with shotgun.

While taking the big buck this year was great and I will always have him on my wall............last year was a MUCH better year all things considered.


Here is an example of a deer's chance to survive gun season around here if they wander around in daylight.

My brother was sitting on a blowdown when he saw 3 deer walking along the upper ridge above him. A shot rang out and 2 came down the hill. My brother shot and 1 was left. 15 seconds later the third and final shot dropped the last deer. The first was the mom. My brother killed her button buck son and the last guy killed her daughter. Pretty rough stuff when a whole family bites the dust in 1 minute.

I just ate some goulashe made from that little button 3 days ago and it was DE-LI-SHOUS!!!!!

I personally love venison and my family loves it as well. I prefer to feed them venison vs. drugged up beef from the store. That demand far outweighs any desire I have to collect a bunch of horns.

If it has a big rack........GREAT!! If it doesn't......GREAT!! Any deer I take is a bonus because they are not crawling out from behind every tree. If I saw 30 deer a day like some people do I might think differently. If I had a huge plot of my own land I might think differently. In the current situation I have to hunt in I have no choice but to take any chance I am fortunate enough to get.

Your intentions are good and I wish you were rewarded more for your efforts. You just have to accept the truth about where you are and what you can realistically accomplish.

Aw come on, Suck it up guys.

It can play with your head if you let it. You just have to keep reminding yourself that some of them WILL make it. As has been mentioned, if you snuff them out you are guaranteed one less potential good buck to hunt for future YEARS. Besides, what kind of satisfaction does an experienced guy get from killing a basket racked year and a half old deer.

As I look at my records so far this year I have observed nearly 60 bucks from my hunting stands. Most of them within bow range. In November a buddy killed his first P&Y (150 class) out of one of my stands and I am very happy for him. I had seen the buck three times last year but could not get a shot off at him. In the mean time even though year after year I let so many bucks walk I haven't even had a sniff at what I consider a big buck. I guess what I am trying to say is that life isn't always fair. To borrow some words from a very wise man, "the race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strong, but time and chance happens to them all". Most people are not going to feel the same way about hunting big horns the way I do so I have learned to accept that which I can't control.

It is a bitter pill to swallow when you see four pickup loads of gun hunters go on a deer drive right through the heart of your hunting area and know that will be repeated a number of times over the course of gun season, but there isn't anything a guy can do about it. As I have said up to this point I haven't had a crack at a P&Y buck in the last two years, which kind of surprises me considering what I have passed on, but again, time and chance my friends, time and chance.

Don't concern yourself with the 1 1/2 year olds that your neighbor shoots but stay focused on the number of the 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 year old bucks that are nice respectable deer but not quite "trophy status" that YOU pass up.
I am a trophy hunter until the last couple of weeks of the season. If I have not filled my only buck tag yet, I will gladly fill it with the smallest racked 1 1/2 year old that provides such an opportunity. I will continue however, to pass up the respectable 2 1/2 -3 1/2 year olds that may only be one year away from truly being a trophy that most people shoot and then brag about how their buck ALMOST scored book.

a yearling 8-point ??
i never heard of such a thing

In a plot of woods loaded with 150"+ bucks.......not much if you are a horn chaser I guess. In places where basket racks are as good as you can realistically hope for.......a 6 or 8 ptr is a nice deer that anyone would and should be proud of.

That is why you can afford to have such opinions. I have hunted well over 40 days this year with bow, shotgun and muzzleloader. Walked countless miles and hunted many different areas. I saw a grand total of a dozen deer. 2 bucks. The rest were does and only one was not running from other hunters. I was fortunate enough to cross paths with a 13 pointer who will be on my wall come summer. Other then that it has been one seriously lean year. My brother killed a 6 pt with bow and a button with shotgun. My other brother saw a few but had no shots during bow and saw NOTHING during gun. 2 out of 3 of my hunting friends got skunked for the whole year.

Try hunting under conditions like those for a couple years and you will realize just how different your opinions might be when you don't see 60 bucks a year. Not everyone lives in the Iowa cornfields. Although I did for 4 years through college


Poor guy.......I can hear violins in the background

I can't believe you haven't seen a P+Y buck in 2 whole years!!!!

It's a shame that you are under the illusion that every hunter out there gets to watch 60 bucks a year and if 2 years go by without a P+Y buck seen it is a bummer. I am glad you are so fortunate..........but you really should understand that not all places are like yours and therefore not everyone is in your position to make such claims.