Let me state here maybe for the first time that it has NEVER been my intention to come off as a know it all or that I am smarter then anyone else here. I think everyone only thinks of that because of my so called " greeness" If my posts were coming from some of the old farts around here they might get a few eyebrows raised but definately no remarks like I have recieved........all because they have been in the woods with a bow for a long time. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and telling someone they screwed up by losing an animal due to their own ignorance should not require a resume........it' s an opinion.......as a hunter......bow time has nothing to do with it.

Let me ask you something.......I hunted 22 days last year and will most likely do the same this year. 44-45 days in the woods. I am willing to bet that there are guys that don' t hunt that much in 10 years............who is more experienced?? One guy has 10 years in the field yet less or equal time. See how " experience" is such a bad measuring stick?? Not that experience isn' t a good thing.......it' s just not the only thing, and IMO not the most important thing. Take for example a guy who buys a bow and doesn' t practice or learn anything about bowhunting and throws a mechanical head on a low power setup to fly well. He goes out and sticks a deer who knows where and never finds it. Shouldn' t this guy have been all set and become a better bowhunter because he got some experience?? or would he have been better off with a good mix of knowledge and better skills to handle that " experience" ???


No.......they keep bringing up I only killed 1......same meaning. I wonder what the magic number is??


Again I am not trying to sound like a smarty pants.........What authority is required to tell someone that they shouldn' t chase after a poorly hit deer?? Is it really asking too much of people to know what to do after the shot?? You still may be out of luck but at least you will know in your heart you did the right thing.

Yes new.........but still in line with the paper. Sheer physics alone will tell you the deer could only have gone a couple ways.........since none I have ever seen jump up and do a 180 in the air and then a backflip in the opposite direction.....not in mid stride that' s for sure. You eliminate 1/2 of your search area because you know his direction. The paper trail pointed towards an uphill hump in the woods........I would not have checked there first because I would guess he went downhill rather then up when hurt. He didn' t......and the paper trail showed me that.

I didn' t mean to say" game set match" sorry......but in my situation the paper trail worked perfect and I will use it in the future if needed. I also carry orange tape with me in case the trails start to criss cross like you said.

Oh they go down and up my friend........I promise you that. The deer around that gorge are referred to as " bionic" by the locals due to their supernatural ability to scale that slope. When the snow falls you can see tracks where it looks almost impossible to travel for anything other then a mountain goat [] The flowing creek at the bottom provides them with their water supply and shelter from guys like me.


Yea I agree.......he COULD have been blowing blood out that hole like a whale. But he also might not have been.......so I waited. Either way I was safer waiting.......I don' t want to find out the blood trail sucks after I have been walking for 50-60 yards and then see him run off because I pushed him. Plus I was hungry

If I was new to hunting, tracking and the woods I would agree 100%. I have plenty of experience in the woods and hunting to feel comfortable and well prepared. 10 years from now I will be the same guy.....the only difference will be I will have a bunch more bowkills under my belt.......same knowledge base an opinions.......just more meat in the freezer. Will I really be a better source of info or be able to give an opinion then just because some time has passed?? Seems silly.

Good luck to you to buddy. Stay safe.

and who makes that decision???........you?? So what qualifies you to judge me? Just curious.

So like I said above..........a guy who hunts 5 days a year but has been in the woods 10 years is qualified due to his " time-in-grade" Yet we will have been in the woods the same amount of time.

again.........you are the judge if someone is qualified to give an opinion...........and why is that again?

Atlas, I wouldn' t/couldn' t consider this guy as having been experienced. This person doesn' t even qualify as a " bowhunter" .

Last year I hunted over 75 days in various states. I have bow hunted solo in wilderness areas for more than two weeks at a time where talking face to face with another human was a welcome luxury. I agree with you that time spent on a stand doesn' t magically qualify one as experienced. It is the chain of events that transpires prior to, during, and following the hunt that time that quantifies experience.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I respect that for sure and have no problem with it. However, the way you attacked deer hunter 21 was very condescending.It was as if he was some ignoramus that didn' t care what the results of his mistakes were. By his account, he thought he made a good quartering away shot and waited the appropiate amount of time, 30 minutes to and hour before taking up the trail. Up to that point he wasn' t aware that anything was wrong. Yet you berate him saying he " pushed the deer all over the woods after making a bad shot" . That type of communication is non-productive, it helps no one. Combine these statements with only one bow kill under your belt and it borders on the epitome of narcissism.

...Heh heh...Do me and yourself a favor. If you keep a journal put todays date in it with your above quote. Ten years from now open it up and read your words. You are in for a surprise my friend, hopefully it will be a pleasant one. I mean that.

I do wish you well..

Atlasman
Your darn straight you cant, now your letting your ingnorance show. Damn boy you must be the best archery hunter since Fred Bear.

What in gods name does knowing all the technical terms for a bow, having to do with being a responsible, ethical hunter? Reciteing all that jargon doenst mean jack.


Every time you set foot in the woods, you learn something new. Your dad knew that following a trail is only one part of tracking.

Take a pill and realize that you shouldnt let your alligator mouth get your humming bird A$$ in trouble


deer hunter 21, what kind of broadhead were you using.?

Never said I was...........and if you can' t learn what different hits mean.......how to recognize them.....and what to do after that in less then 3 years then you have got bigger problems to solve. That stuff can be learned in half an hour of reading. Putting that knowledge into action is the tricky part. I agree that it would take a very long time to learn these things if you do it the hard way by having heartbreaking disasters as your teacher..........with all the resources available to us today there really is no reason to do that. One night of dedicated reading at this forum will give you a solid foundation to work from for god' s sake. No one knows everything.........but the basics should be in all our bag of tricks.


If you had bothered to read the thread you would have seen the mention of being " green" to archery and bowhunting.......and the insinuation that experience is the cure for this. All the above topics deal with performance of your bow in one way or another that could mildly or severely effect your success on game........so if experience is the key to everything then why would so many " experienced" bowhunters be so ignorant to important topics such as these?? They are also common topics of archery in general.

Man.......you don' t think KE has anything to do with being a responsible or ethical hunter?? Tell that to the guys out there getting 2-3" of penetration with mechanicals because of the lack of KE coming from their setup []


Put down the Rolling Rock, move the TV tray, turn off Springer, put on a shirt, and take a walk around the trailor park to get some fresh air dude

Antler,

The reason I cracked at 21 the way I did was the last post I saw from him in the black powder forum. He came out asking for help because he had done " everything" known to man with his ML and it still won' t shoot well. After numerous posts by many very knowledgable people there practically BEGGING him to give more information so they could him.........he finally comes out and says he doesn' t even know what a spit patch is and he has never tried Pyrodex pellets or Powerbelts [][][]

Shortly after even more people tried to help him....he told everyone he sold the gun and bought another one which he quickly posted to ask if he made a mistake buying THAT one.......arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!

It was such an unreal waste of everyone' s time because he asked for help and then wouldn' t let anyone help him...........then didn' t try anything people suggested and just went and bought a new gun............which he of course asked for reassurance on by all the people he just snubbed.

Then his post appears here and I just saw the same thing coming..........I see no reason why this situation would have been any different. He either asks for help too late.......or doesn' t take the help offered him.

That is the reason for the tone of my post. I know many of you guys are thinking I was trying to sound like king of all bowhunters but I wasn' t. For what it' s worth.

Here is something for the " green' police to ponder.

Where does it start or end??

Are you " green" until you get your first kill?? (aparently not)

Are you still " green" after 5 kills?

Are you " green" until your first buck kill?? (aparently not)

Are you " green" after 10 kills??

20?

30?

Are you " green" until you shoot over a 120 class buck??

140??

170??

Are you " green" until you have spent 5 years in the woods with a bow??

10??

15??

Is a 5 year hunter with 10 kills less " green" then a 10 year hunter with 5 kills??

Is a hunter with 20 kills more " green" then a hunter with one 150 class buck??

Is a hunter that drops all his deer within easy tracking range more " green" then a guy that has to track hard and long to find his deer??

Is a hunter more " green" if he knows nothing about his equipment other then how to shoot it well compared to a guy that knows his setup inside and out but is a little shakey on the shot??

Is a very experienced hunter with limited knowledge less " green" then a very knowledgable hunter with limited experience??


Kermit said it best

It ain' t easy being " green" [:-]

Atlasman,

You keep citing that if people researched and did their homework BEFORE they step into the woods everything would be Honky-Dinky.

Let me ask you this.

Would you be as confident letting a Summa Cum Laude intern of medical school diagnose, and perform surgery on you even though he never entered into residency?

Lets say you had a choice over who would perform the operation, #1 would be our highly inteligent, overtly confident, top of the class intern.
#2 would be a quiet, middle aged, old school Dr. who graduated in the middle percentile of his class and has been buried down in the E.R. as the Trauma surgeon for the past God knows how many years?

I know who I' d want handling the knife!

Also, if you are so adamant in utilizing resources that would educate, enlighten, shorten the learning curve, or otherwise prepare you for future endeavors, you' ve managed to ignore one of the MOST important of Lifes lessons so blantantly pointed out throughout this thread.

Humility.

But that' s o-kay!

You' ll encounter it, guaranteed! With a little luck it will open your eyes and your heart.

That' s if it doesn' t cause a massive gag reflex....

WOW! I cant believe I read the whole thing. I took an identical shot last week, unfortunatley with the same results. I felt stupid, as Im sure from reading 21' s post He does too. He admitted it so get off him. Yes losing a deer is not the preferred option and we should take every precaution to keep it from happening. On the other hand do you think the animal wasted because it didnt wind up in a hunters freezer with a nice antler mount on the wall. The American Indains would' ve strung you up for taking the meat and antlers only off an animal that size and discarding the rest. The coydogs, possums, skunks, squirrels, and countless insects will use every inch of that deer. Rest easy 21.

Instead of posting on the board maybe you guys should take this to the chat room.