Not passing threw....Any thoughts?
10-19-2010, 05:14 AM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,722
ya'll cracking me up on the KE talk .... please explain to me how the energy needed to take an arrow from not moving to XX ammount of FPS has ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL with bowhunting?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
"It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of the given mass from rest to its current velocity"
That's it - that's WHAT KE is .... nothing more, nothing less. Why do you think the equation multiplies speed squared?
an object like a .22 bullet has fantastic KE - its going really fast remember? how well does that .22 size object penetrate?
guys, its all about momentum - look it up, spend 30 minutes reading about what KE is and what momentum is, read the Dr Ashby reports, LEARN and EDUCATE yourselves
your bowhunting will be better for it
you spend how many hours each week practicing? hanging stand? putting out corn, or checking camtrackers?
but you don't know what KE is, you just know what the tv shows and Rage manufacturers have told you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
"It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of the given mass from rest to its current velocity"
That's it - that's WHAT KE is .... nothing more, nothing less. Why do you think the equation multiplies speed squared?
an object like a .22 bullet has fantastic KE - its going really fast remember? how well does that .22 size object penetrate?
guys, its all about momentum - look it up, spend 30 minutes reading about what KE is and what momentum is, read the Dr Ashby reports, LEARN and EDUCATE yourselves
your bowhunting will be better for it
you spend how many hours each week practicing? hanging stand? putting out corn, or checking camtrackers?
but you don't know what KE is, you just know what the tv shows and Rage manufacturers have told you?
10-19-2010, 06:27 AM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
Well, because without that energy to get the arrow moving the arrow will not have any momentum. An arrow that isn't moving has zero velocity and zero velocity means zero momentum. It would seem KE has a lot to do with bowhunting. It has a whole lot less to do with penetration than momentum but without KE the arrow isn't moving and there is no penetration and no bowhunting.
10-19-2010, 06:40 AM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,722
Well, because without that energy to get the arrow moving the arrow will not have any momentum. An arrow that isn't moving has zero velocity and zero velocity means zero momentum. It would seem KE has a lot to do with bowhunting. It has a whole lot less to do with penetration than momentum but without KE the arrow isn't moving and there is no penetration and no bowhunting.
Again, the archery manufacturers have pulled amazing wool over bowhunters eyes here - because each FPS they increase their bows, they can advertise how much more KE they're producing - well duh, KE uses speed squared in the equation !
Imagine the extreme here ...
a 250 gr total weight going 400 FPS = 89 # KE
a 750 gr total weight going 200 FPS = 67# KE
which do you think penetrates better?
if KE rules - the 250 gr arrow would .... but nobody in their right minds hunts really big game with light arrows because THEY KNOW momentum is what carries the arrow and broadheads through.
KE is absolutely LOST when the arrow impacts because the equation itsself is only the measurement of the energy getting the arrow in motion !
its the weight of the total arrow that keeps the momentum going - that's why a high speen, light object it terrible at penetration and a heavy slower object excels at it !
10-19-2010, 06:52 AM
#54
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
KE would be a determining factor if a person wanted to lower their DW but still shoot a heavy arrow to achieve good momentum. I don't necessarily disagree that the idea of KE has been corrupted by bow manufacturers but if KE is used in conjunction with DW and momentum to determine a quality arrow then it is very much a part of bowhunting and of valid use in a discussion.
I think what gets lost in these types of threads is how everything works together. People talk about a BH as if it is not attached to an arrow or they talk about bow speed but do not relate it to arrow weight or they talk about arrow weight (lighter is better
) but do not relate it to momentum.
If more bowhunters understood how their bow and their arrows worked, and worked together, threads like this would be rare. Unfortunately most bowhunters think they need the fastest bow they can afford to shoot the lightest arrow it can for the flattest trajectory with a BH that is like throwing an axe through an animal. Recipe for a nightmare of wounded animals.
I think what gets lost in these types of threads is how everything works together. People talk about a BH as if it is not attached to an arrow or they talk about bow speed but do not relate it to arrow weight or they talk about arrow weight (lighter is better
) but do not relate it to momentum.If more bowhunters understood how their bow and their arrows worked, and worked together, threads like this would be rare. Unfortunately most bowhunters think they need the fastest bow they can afford to shoot the lightest arrow it can for the flattest trajectory with a BH that is like throwing an axe through an animal. Recipe for a nightmare of wounded animals.
10-19-2010, 09:04 AM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,722
Unfortunately most bowhunters think they need the fastest bow they can afford to shoot the lightest arrow it can for the flattest trajectory with a BH that is like throwing an axe through an animal. Recipe for a nightmare of wounded animals.
compounders are sheep by and large
10-19-2010, 09:59 AM
#56
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 159
You seem to have slightly misunderstood the idea here. The kinetic energy value, or the work needed to cause the arrow to be in motion in the first place is going to be the same amount of work to stop the arrows motion on the opposite end. This is an extremely relevant factor when bow hunting!
10-19-2010, 11:15 AM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,722
its not the same ammount of energy - getting something from not moving to moving requires energy - stopping doesn't
the way the energy is transferred from the arrow/head - THAT is what is relevant, and its also whay a sharp broadhead tipped arrow will drive much deeper than a much higher KE object that has less mass
a light fast arrow will NEVER outpenetrate a slow heavy one = that knowledge is lost in today's archery
the way the energy is transferred from the arrow/head - THAT is what is relevant, and its also whay a sharp broadhead tipped arrow will drive much deeper than a much higher KE object that has less mass
a light fast arrow will NEVER outpenetrate a slow heavy one = that knowledge is lost in today's archery
10-20-2010, 07:08 AM
#60
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,722
you as a bowhunter control the shot as it leaves the bow ...... deer jump the string, deer move, winds play a factor, unseen branches, misread distances ..... and rarely do people hit where they want to - fact
knowing the above, should a bowhunter prepare his setup to only work well on really good shots? if he did, on the bad shots bad things will happen
if your setup is to maximize your chances whent he shots go bad, when they go good is a piece of cake !
knowing the above, should a bowhunter prepare his setup to only work well on really good shots? if he did, on the bad shots bad things will happen
if your setup is to maximize your chances whent he shots go bad, when they go good is a piece of cake !