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Not passing threw....Any thoughts?

Old 10-25-2010, 09:20 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by annika3 View Post
My Spew? I call a guy out that has NEVER used the head who continues to bash (spew) comments about the head and I comment on how well the head has worked for me. I think you have it backwards there Chachi.

You are way off point. I dispute a guy that has never used the head and I'm just stating MY facts about using the head. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head?
Unless you are shooting a 365grain arrow at 50 ftlbs of KE then your facts are no more relevant than the guy that has never shot the BH.

Do you think 50ftlbs of KE and a 365 grain arrow weight is enough for shooting a rage BH and getting complete pass throughs? What would be your minimum arrow weight (GPP) and KE to shoot a rage BH? When you helped design the rage BH what was the minimum arrow weight (GPP) and KE that you tested with?
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:17 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by OHbowhntr View Post
You never answered the question??? No ideas??? What BH would you use if you HAD to use a FIXED blade BH??? Can you tune a bow well enough to shoot a FIXED blade BH???
To answer your question I would have them use the 2-blade 40KE head.

I don't have to choose a fixed so I can't pick one because I haven't shot a fixed for a long time. I would have to do some testing on my own.

No, I can't tune a bow so I can't shoot fixed.

Why don't you answer my question.

Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head?
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:08 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by annika3 View Post
To answer your question I would have them use the 2-blade 40KE head.

I don't have to choose a fixed so I can't pick one because I haven't shot a fixed for a long time. I would have to do some testing on my own.

No, I can't tune a bow so I can't shoot fixed.

Why don't you answer my question.

Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head?

Again you dance around the real subject, the EXPECTED response in all honesty.

So say you get an invite to hunt ELK in Oregon or Montana where you can't use your beloved RAGE's, would you not go because you can't use your favorite BH which you CLAIM you helped design???
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:24 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by OHbowhntr View Post
Again you dance around the real subject, the EXPECTED response in all honesty.

So say you get an invite to hunt ELK in Oregon or Montana where you can't use your beloved RAGE's, would you not go because you can't use your favorite BH which you CLAIM you helped design???
I Believe I answered your questions but you didn't answer mine. Talk about dancing?

If I got invited I would test out a few heads and go with the one that flies the best out of my setup.

Now how about answering my question. It's a simple question.

Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head?
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:32 PM
  #105  
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my my where to start? see, I've been hunting the apst 3 days for the most part, no time to come back to this ... until now



they expect the POI to be right behind the shoulder.
expect so often turns into not where it was suppose to go

prepare for the worst, not the best


Sounds to me you dont have enough KE
sigh

if he wants more KE, drop to 200 grains - that'll boost his KE greatly, and he'll not get ANY penetration KE has little use in bowhunting


drockw -


The issue there is obvious lack of energy and momentum in the setup.

The broadhead is designed for large cutting diameter, not great penetration.

uh oh, annika3 isn't going to like hearing that !



I will never use a Rage because they suck at penetration qualities. Why in the WORLD would I want to use a product that will reduce my chances ?

Its like buying a 2 wheel drive truck and driving into the mountains of Colorado in Nov for an elk hunt. Hey, I'm not going to expect snow, no 4x4 neccessary right? But IF there is snow? I'm screwed.
Why? 2 wd don't have good traction qualities. Now if I'm in a 4x4? Sun or snow I'm covered.

Look, prepare for bad hit with heavy arrows and big sharp 2 blade COI heads, or at least a non-mechanical with great penetration qualities like a Muzzy or Zwickey or Thunderhead.

Why choose a lesser product? Because its a fad ?



My Spew? I call a guy out that has NEVER used the head who continues to bash (spew) comments about the head and I comment on how well the head has worked for me. I think you have it backwards there Chachi.
notice you didn't comment on my video posts?

you also never comments on the physics of how broadheads work nor on momentum?



why is that?



You are way off point. I dispute a guy that has never used the head and I'm just stating MY facts about using the head. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head?
do you even know who I am ??

do you know what I've killed, how I've killed and what I used? Do you?

aside from not knowing, just talk a bit about the negatives of the Rage, shall we?


To answer your question I would have them use the 2-blade 40KE head.
LOL ...... and what does 40KE even mean anyway? Please explain





let me address this head on, right now

Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head?
I've got a nice wall of buck. I don't enter into P&Y or offical score, I don't believe much in make believe ratings of P&Y or B&C other than a way everyone can use to say how big a buck can be. I imagine I've killed from does to spikes to 150" or so. I've killed with compound, crossbow, longbow, recurve, muzzleloader, shotgun and rifle. I've hunted probably a dozen states for quite a few animals. I've killed 5 bull elk with bows. I've never been on a guided hunt, I have done a trespass fee hunt, I've had an unguided Quebec caribou hunt. I have a $125 a year lease in Arkansas. that's it

I'm 41 and I've hunted for 30+ years. I've been there, and I've done that, and my first bow was a PSE Precision Edge. Remember those? I've been through wood shafts, graphlex/fiberglass shafts, carbons and aluminum. I remember when 50% letoff was the rule. When 65% wasn't allowed. When mechanical heads were illegal. I went traditional 6-7 years ago and it enlightened me to what bowhunting IS.

I don't hunt for horns really - I'll shoot a nasty knarly buck if I like it, a spike if I want meat, I'll shoot a 180" buck that only has 1 antler. Score means nothing to me much.

I think I know more about what hunting is than ever before, and I know much about what archery is as well.

I have used Puckett's bloodtrailers and elk heads. I've killed with them, and I've killed with Vortex and I've killed with Shockwaves. I stopped using expandbles on my own accord when I went traditional, and I'm back to compound and will never use one again because why?


THEY HAVE POOR PENTRATION QUALITIES

that's why - I don't have to use one to know this - and you know this too annika3 but you will not address it


there is the facts on that



why should anyone listen to me annika3?

don't trust a single word say is the answer - instead, research Dr Ashby's broadhead studies on tradgang.com = its free, every bowhunter should spend 30 minutes reading some of it

the physics that make things in this world didn't change when a Rage was designed - facts and laws are what they are

people can read, research and judge for themselves how they wish to choose their setups - choose for only when shots go good, or choose a setup that gives them the best possible penetration setup and IF shots go bad, they greatly increase their chances of recovering the animals ?

I choose heavier arrows and COI dependable broadheads



wanna know what I think? If you've killed 8 P&Y bucks they were not public land where I spend 95% of my time hunting and if you sued Rage to kill those 8? You likely wounded and lost half that many again or more to the same heads. That's only my opinions based on how poorly they penetrate and on shots that are not perfect - and those happen - a Rage WILL fail you. You'll never admit it anyway, but that's the way I believe it based on all I know about bowhunting and mechanical heads.

Last edited by Ranger77; 10-26-2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:49 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Ranger77 View Post
my my where to start? see, I've been hunting the apst 3 days for the most part, no time to come back to this ... until now





expect so often turns into not where it was suppose to go

prepare for the worst, not the best




sigh

if he wants more KE, drop to 200 grains - that'll boost his KE greatly, and he'll not get ANY penetration KE has little use in bowhunting


drockw -





uh oh, annika3 isn't going to like hearing that !



I will never use a Rage because they suck at penetration qualities. Why in the WORLD would I want to use a product that will reduce my chances ?

Its like buying a 2 wheel drive truck and driving into the mountains of Colorado in Nov for an elk hunt. Hey, I'm not going to expect snow, no 4x4 neccessary right? But IF there is snow? I'm screwed.
Why? 2 wd don't have good traction qualities. Now if I'm in a 4x4? Sun or snow I'm covered.

Look, prepare for bad hit with heavy arrows and big sharp 2 blade COI heads, or at least a non-mechanical with great penetration qualities like a Muzzy or Zwickey or Thunderhead.

Why choose a lesser product? Because its a fad ?





notice you didn't comment on my video posts?

you also never comments on the physics of how broadheads work nor on momentum?



why is that?





do you even know who I am ??

do you know what I've killed, how I've killed and what I used? Do you?

aside from not knowing, just talk a bit about the negatives of the Rage, shall we?




LOL ...... and what does 40KE even mean anyway? Please explain





let me address this head on, right now



I've got a nice wall of buck. I don't enter into P&Y or offical score, I don't believe much in make believe ratings of P&Y or B&C other than a way everyone can use to say how big a buck can be. I imagine I've killed from does to spikes to 150" or so. I've killed with compound, crossbow, longbow, recurve, muzzleloader, shotgun and rifle. I've hunted probably a dozen states for quite a few animals. I've killed 5 bull elk with bows. I've never been on a guided hunt, I have done a trespass fee hunt, I've had an unguided Quebec caribou hunt. I have a $125 a year lease in Arkansas. that's it

I'm 41 and I've hunted for 30+ years. I've been there, and I've done that, and my first bow was a PSE Precision Edge. Remember those? I've been through wood shafts, graphlex/fiberglass shafts, carbons and aluminum. I remember when 50% letoff was the rule. When 65% wasn't allowed. When mechanical heads were illegal. I went traditional 6-7 years ago and it enlightened me to what bowhunting IS.

I don't hunt for horns really - I'll shoot a nasty knarly buck if I like it, a spike if I want meat, I'll shoot a 180" buck that only has 1 antler. Score means nothing to me much.

I think I know more about what hunting is than ever before, and I know much about what archery is as well.

I have used Puckett's bloodtrailers and elk heads. I've killed with them, and I've killed with Vortex and I've killed with Shockwaves. I stopped using expandbles on my own accord when I went traditional, and I'm back to compound and will never use one again because why?


THEY HAVE POOR PENTRATION QUALITIES

that's why - I don't have to use one to know this - and you know this too annika3 but you will not address it

there is the facts on that



why should anyone listen to me annika3?

don't trust a single word say is the answer - instead, research Dr Ashby's broadhead studies on tradgang.com = its free, every bowhunter should spend 30 minutes reading some of it

the physics that make things in this world didn't change when a Rage was designed - facts and laws are what they are

people can read, research and judge for themselves how they wish to choose their setups - choose for only when shots go good, or choose a setup that gives them the best possible penetration setup and IF shots go bad, they greatly increase their chances of recovering the animals ?

I choose heavier arrows and COI dependable broadheads



wanna know what I think? If you've killed 8 P&Y bucks they were not public land where I spend 95% of my time hunting and if you sued Rage to kill those 8? You likely wounded and lost half that many again or more to the same heads. That's only my opinions based on how poorly they penetrate and on shots that are not perfect - and those happen - a Rage WILL fail you. You'll never admit it anyway, but that's the way I believe it based on all I know about bowhunting and mechanical heads.

WOW!!!! Impressive!! Let me be the first one to shake your hand!

Now that we got that out of the way.....Whoopidy doo da day.

It still boils down to you have NEVER shot the head so you have no direct use knowledge of what the BH will actually do. I have killed many deer and a moose with Snypers/Rage and have yet to lose a deer using them. I shot fixed for 19 years and switched to rear opening mechanicals. Why? Because I believe Rage/Snyper are a overall better head than any fixed I have ever used.

Why does this bother you so much? Shoot what you like and I'll shoot what I like but please don't try to suggest you know a product in and out when you have NEVER USED THE PRODUCT!!
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:14 PM
  #107  
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WOW!!!! Impressive!! Let me be the first one to shake your hand!
Now that we got that out of the way.....Whoopidy doo da day.
you want to boast your 8 P&Y bucks but I can't submit my bowhunting & hunting history huh?


It still boils down to you have NEVER shot the head so you have no direct use knowledge of what the BH will actually do.

I've not shot a spoon tied to the end of my arrow either, and I'm pretty certain I know what will happen.

I have killed many deer and a moose with Snypers/Rage and have yet to lose a deer using them. I shot fixed for 19 years and switched to rear opening mechanicals. Why? Because I believe Rage/Snyper are a overall better head than any fixed I have ever used.

bull$**** and I'll call that right there - why? because the laws of physics will not bend to a mechanical broadhead thats why!

using your exact setup, a German Kenetics SilverFlame will outpenetrate evevery single time against a Rage.

why? how can I say that?

PHYSICS that's why !


Why does this bother you so much? Shoot what you like and I'll shoot what I like but please don't try to suggest you know a product in and out when you have NEVER USED THE PRODUCT!!

I've never driven a Yugo - why? becauce they're NOT good at protecting the occupants against side impact in collisions. I'll drive a 2500HD and be MUCH safer. I know this- I don't need to be in a wreck with a Yugo to say it.

I've never shot a Gobbler Guillotine (sp) at a deer - I never will either why? THEY WOULD SUCK that"s why !




I'll never use a Rage, because the qualities that MAKE a broadhead super effective are missing with the Rage.

Nothing will outpenetrate a 2 blade COI design - fact

3 blades vs 2 blade will always mean the 3 blade cuts more, uses more energy to do so and will NOT penetrate deeper because of that - fact

Rage designed a 40KE head - why? because the original Rage and the way it is designed rapidly loses momentum when it heads, why? BECAUSE IT HAS POOR PENETRATION qualities, that's why! So Rage designs another poor head and labels is 40KE to suck people into buying them for bows that really shouldnt be shooting anything but a 2 blade Zwickey or comparable head !



Why do I care? Because hunting is my life - its how I live, what I do. Rage and what they're being sold as is a lie. Pure and simple, they SUCK at penetration.

So many bowhunters have bought into the bull**** hype and they've lost deer because of the poorness of the Rage - the internet is ALIVE with threads about them


Tell me about those videos - great shots, all of them, suck penetraton.

WHY ?


bowhunting doesn't need poor products - Rage are poor products, that's why I care


You've never once, ONCE tried to show WHY a Rage is so good. Why?

I can answer that - because compare to a SilverFlame, a Zwickey, a SteelForce, an Ashby head etc they fail on every single level of what makes a great penetrating broadhead !

Last edited by Ranger77; 10-26-2010 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:51 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Ranger77 View Post
you want to boast your 8 P&Y bucks but I can't submit my bowhunting & hunting history huh?





I've not shot a spoon tied to the end of my arrow either, and I'm pretty certain I know what will happen.




bull$**** and I'll call that right there - why? because the laws of physics will not bend to a mechanical broadhead thats why!

using your exact setup, a German Kenetics SilverFlame will outpenetrate evevery single time against a Rage.

why? how can I say that?

PHYSICS that's why !





I've never driven a Yugo - why? becauce they're NOT good at protecting the occupants against side impact in collisions. I'll drive a 2500HD and be MUCH safer. I know this- I don't need to be in a wreck with a Yugo to say it.

I've never shot a Gobbler Guillotine (sp) at a deer - I never will either why? THEY WOULD SUCK that"s why !




I'll never use a Rage, because the qualities that MAKE a broadhead super effective are missing with the Rage.

Nothing will outpenetrate a 2 blade COI design - fact

3 blades vs 2 blade will always mean the 3 blade cuts more, uses more energy to do so and will NOT penetrate deeper because of that - fact

Rage designed a 40KE head - why? because the original Rage and the way it is designed rapidly loses momentum when it heads, why? BECAUSE IT HAS POOR PENETRATION qualities, that's why! So Rage designs another poor head and labels is 40KE to suck people into buying them for bows that really shouldnt be shooting anything but a 2 blade Zwickey or comparable head !



Why do I care? Because hunting is my life - its how I live, what I do. Rage and what they're being sold as is a lie. Pure and simple, they SUCK at penetration.

So many bowhunters have bought into the bull**** hype and they've lost deer because of the poorness of the Rage - the internet is ALIVE with threads about them


Tell me about those videos - great shots, all of them, suck penetraton.

WHY ?


bowhunting doesn't need poor products - Rage are poor products, that's why I care


You've never once, ONCE tried to show WHY a Rage is so good. Why?

I can answer that - because compare to a SilverFlame, a Zwickey, a SteelForce, an Ashby head etc they fail on every single level of what makes a great penetrating broadhead !
You really don't read very well.

I have never said that Rage will "outpenetrate" some of the heads you talked about. I did say:

1. I think it is a OVERALL better head than any fixed I ever shot.
When you consider flight, penetration, damage, blood trail, how quickly it can put an animal down, and the room for error you have with a 2" cutting diameter BH. (Please don't give me the shoulder shot because ALL BH's can have problems with this area).

Also, penetration is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to a great BH.

How can 100,000's of bowhunters all be wrong? Why do so many of the bowhunters that do it for a living (TV people) use the Rage if there livlihood depended on it? Please don't say money because that is simply one manufacture that is paying to sponsor the show. It certainly wouldn't come close to paying all the bills. And these guys on tv can pretty much pick any BH manufacture to sponsor them and pay them but they choose the Rage. If they were losing/wounding all these animals they couldn't make a show. They only have so much time (hunting season) to get their kills in.

I just don't understand why it is such a mission for some of you guys to continue the bashing of Rage heads when it has been proven out to be a very good head. Just like a lot of BH's out there.

Why don't you simply talk/brag about what you think is a great BH and leave the bashing out of it.

I am done with this thread. Good luck hunting!!
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:33 PM
  #109  
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This is the main reason I just can't stand hunting shows. They are going to promote who ever pays them the most money not what's best for the average archer.

The average archer from what i have seen are not very well verused on the proper bow tuning skills. What they see on hunting shows and commericals is what they think. Mechanicals fly like field piont and they take that statement and never shoot there broadheads to find out exactly how they fly and penetrate. That said a person should always test his hunting setup for tune after you get it close with field points whether mechanical or fixed so you know what to expect.

To me the Rage head along with any other large dia. expandable head need to be shot from a bow that is a very fast 330+ IBO then shot atleast a 400 grain arrow not including the head so they can get the best possible penetration and allow for more margin of error. But it doesn't matter of the bow shoots 400 fps if it isn't properly tuned you are asking for trouble.

By properly tuned I don't mean take to the bow shop and have them tune it you have to tune for you not the guy standing behind the counter. All you have done when you have someone else tune your bow without you being the shooter is waste your money and is not going to be right for "you".

It isn't the broadhead or what ever fault if you make a bad shot or don't get good penetration it the person holding that bow fault for not taking the time to tune then test there setup.

I wish they would ban expandable heads then alot of the fly by the seat of my pants bowhunters, which I used to be one when I didn't know any better, would give up and quit because there bow won't shoot right and in all reality it wasn't shooting right with the mechanicals either. Yeah it would take sometime and so hard lessons but it would happen which is probly better for the sport as a whole. I wish in Missouri everyone had to qualify, it would be a pain but it sure would weed out the flock a bit wouldn't it?

From my experiences machanicals have to many things that can go wrong when compared to fixed blades even if both are tuned properly. I want to know I have done everything I can to make the kill as clean as possible and if I make a bad shot then I want something that is going to help me ie fixed heads not expandables.

You don't have to have a large dia. head to harvest and animal all it takes is a well placed feild point when it comes down to it not that I would try for the same reason as I choose not to shoot mechanical to much can and will go wrong!!!!!!

Last edited by steve25; 10-26-2010 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:41 PM
  #110  
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Got my first pass threw today! I shot a little far back so I will go find her in the morning, it was only a doe but it was my first!
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