QDM- Effect of breeding related stress
12-28-2009, 02:36 PM
#101
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
I don't think they ever intended on achieving those goals, but I believe they had to state the goals as being that low to justify some of the kill-offs they were having elsewhere in the state.
There is, however, a valid reason VF should not be used as an example of carrying capacity of the majority of the state. For one thing the majority of the state does not have the open space per acre providing browse.
Last edited by bluebird2; 12-28-2009 at 02:39 PM.
12-28-2009, 02:51 PM
#102
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"You can't make the claim that no wmu has a deer density of over 30 dpsm, considering I have evidence proving my immediate vicinity holds 100 dpsm."
Doesnt matter what some "pocket" within a wmu may hold, remember we have large wmus and only "micromanagement" thats gonna occur according to pgc is dmap etc.
According to pgc annual reports data, every wmu in the state has less than 25 ow dpsm on average, down to "less than 10 dpsm" overwinter on average for the lowest density wmus.
Doesnt matter what some "pocket" within a wmu may hold, remember we have large wmus and only "micromanagement" thats gonna occur according to pgc is dmap etc.
According to pgc annual reports data, every wmu in the state has less than 25 ow dpsm on average, down to "less than 10 dpsm" overwinter on average for the lowest density wmus.
12-28-2009, 02:56 PM
#103
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"As far as the "Pigeons" go LOL, they hoisted the cup while the Flyboys cried in their beer. The Flyers need to fix their goaltending issues if they want to go anywhere this year. Then again Carcillo will probably take so many penalties Carter and Richards will be exhausted by playoffs again."
One "cure" for the flyers and their dirty style of play. Eric Godard.
I follow the "goons" more than the goal scorers. Hopefully boogaard, "the boogey man" is in the line up for minnesota when they play penns. Been awhile since he and godard have danced.
One "cure" for the flyers and their dirty style of play. Eric Godard.
I follow the "goons" more than the goal scorers. Hopefully boogaard, "the boogey man" is in the line up for minnesota when they play penns. Been awhile since he and godard have danced.
Last edited by Cornelius08; 12-28-2009 at 02:58 PM.
12-28-2009, 07:42 PM
#104
Typical Buck
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: SE PA
Posts: 657
This post insinuates that the maximum dpsm is 30. That is simply not true. You're saying stress cant be a factor bc we only have 30 dpsm. You're wrong. There are areas within that wmu that have much higher densities. Your basing your argument of a false premise (the entirety of wmu 5c has no more than 30 dpsm); when in reality wmu 5c had large areas that can't hold any deer, and other areas holding over 100. Saying "5c does not have a dd of over 30 dpsm" is blatantly wrong; please use a reasonable argument next time to validate your position.
12-28-2009, 07:48 PM
#105
Typical Buck
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Sidenote: I find it comical that your avatar equates the PGC to a dog's bowel movement, yet you're using their data to support your point. What is your point by the way?
12-29-2009, 04:20 AM
#106
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
[QUOTE]This post insinuates that the maximum dpsm is 30. That is simply not true. You're saying stress cant be a factor bc we only have 30 dpsm. You're wrong. [/QUOTE
My post did not insinuate that the max. was 30 DPSM. Everyone that has even the most basic understanding of deer management knows that the 30 DPSM number is the average for the WMU and that some areas will have a lot more and others will have a lot less. The bottom line is that only a very small percentage of the state have over 30 DPSM and those are areas where limited hunter access has allowed the herd to increase and prevented hunters from controlling the herd. Therefore, if the deer are stressed in these areas it is due to factors beyond the control of the PGC, as in VF.
My post did not insinuate that the max. was 30 DPSM. Everyone that has even the most basic understanding of deer management knows that the 30 DPSM number is the average for the WMU and that some areas will have a lot more and others will have a lot less. The bottom line is that only a very small percentage of the state have over 30 DPSM and those are areas where limited hunter access has allowed the herd to increase and prevented hunters from controlling the herd. Therefore, if the deer are stressed in these areas it is due to factors beyond the control of the PGC, as in VF.
12-29-2009, 05:05 AM
#107
Typical Buck
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: SE PA
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My post did not insinuate that the max. was 30 DPSM. Everyone that has even the most basic understanding of deer management knows that the 30 DPSM number is the average for the WMU and that some areas will have a lot more and others will have a lot less. The bottom line is that only a very small percentage of the state have over 30 DPSM and those are areas where limited hunter access has allowed the herd to increase and prevented hunters from controlling the herd. Therefore, if the deer are stressed in these areas it is due to factors beyond the control of the PGC, as in VF.
12-29-2009, 08:13 AM
#108
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"Your missing something here bud, let me help you out. It dosen't matter what the average dpsm is for an entire wmu when we're talking about the effect of stress in specific situations."
Was speaking of the fact that the deer densities as stated by pgc arent even close to the extreme example you cited. As for your point, i have no issue at the moment.
"Sidenote: I find it comical that your avatar equates the PGC to a dog's bowel movement,"
Actually that was meant to be a dog placing that bowel movement atop the initials, which i believe well represents current hunters thoughts toward the agency. But i guess i have no problem with the "art" being open to interpretation either. lol
" yet you're using their data to support your point."
Its moreso that im pointing out that it doesnt support the "supporters" points and pgcs own claims, which is even more important. Whether I believe it or not doesnt make much difference. Because even If a person believes the data, it doesnt support the deer program. If a person does not believe it then NOTHING supports the deer program. Its pretty hard to justify the current extreme program and point to sound science under either scenario.
Was speaking of the fact that the deer densities as stated by pgc arent even close to the extreme example you cited. As for your point, i have no issue at the moment.
"Sidenote: I find it comical that your avatar equates the PGC to a dog's bowel movement,"
Actually that was meant to be a dog placing that bowel movement atop the initials, which i believe well represents current hunters thoughts toward the agency. But i guess i have no problem with the "art" being open to interpretation either. lol
" yet you're using their data to support your point."
Its moreso that im pointing out that it doesnt support the "supporters" points and pgcs own claims, which is even more important. Whether I believe it or not doesnt make much difference. Because even If a person believes the data, it doesnt support the deer program. If a person does not believe it then NOTHING supports the deer program. Its pretty hard to justify the current extreme program and point to sound science under either scenario.
Last edited by Cornelius08; 12-29-2009 at 08:17 AM.
12-29-2009, 08:48 AM
#110
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
That really doesn't make sense when you consider the goals for 2F were 17 DPSM and 2G was 15 DPSM.
The open space in VF does not provide any browse. The PGC will tell you that deer are browsers not grazers , so the PGC doesn't assign any habitat value to open space.
