how many consider
09-12-2009 | 05:27 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,625
Likes: 0
From: Middletown PA United States
Some good thoughts, TFOX. If I may take up some space I'll give a little history
Back in my early days (mid 70's) I shot about 50-55# and aluminum arrows. That was before carbons. Bows only had about 20-25% letoff and I'm not a weight lifter. How much energy? Who knows and who cares. Pass through is a pass through.
As bows got more letoff I moved up to 65-67# and got pass throughs. Also had spine shots that didn't.
As I got older the weight started coming down to about 60#. Same results.
Now the last couple years I've suffered some severe muscle loss and can't even draw 50# effectively. Funny how I shoot 47# and 305 gr arrows and still get pass throughs. And with setups that I now know produce only 38-39# of energy.
So through it all I've learned something that I try to tell younger fellows with higher testosterone levels than myself. Poundage, kinetic energy, momentum, speed----they are only numbers. Most don't hear me. Testosterone blocks brain function and reduces common sense.
Back in my early days (mid 70's) I shot about 50-55# and aluminum arrows. That was before carbons. Bows only had about 20-25% letoff and I'm not a weight lifter. How much energy? Who knows and who cares. Pass through is a pass through.
As bows got more letoff I moved up to 65-67# and got pass throughs. Also had spine shots that didn't.
As I got older the weight started coming down to about 60#. Same results.
Now the last couple years I've suffered some severe muscle loss and can't even draw 50# effectively. Funny how I shoot 47# and 305 gr arrows and still get pass throughs. And with setups that I now know produce only 38-39# of energy.
So through it all I've learned something that I try to tell younger fellows with higher testosterone levels than myself. Poundage, kinetic energy, momentum, speed----they are only numbers. Most don't hear me. Testosterone blocks brain function and reduces common sense.
09-12-2009 | 05:36 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 0
From: Virginia / West Virginia
Honestly, I never gave it any thought really. I do see how feathers would not present as much of a barrier as vanes (especially blazers or fusions) because they would lay down. Stiff vanes will have to "force" through, so to speak.
However, I think (for hunting) in most cases is IS a trivial point, because the hole the vanes or feathers is following through a deer, is not one made by a field point - its much bigger. That is why I don't subscribe to the "thinner shafts penetrate so much better" theory. Sure in a target that is gripping the shaft they do, there is less shaft to grip and slowdown. But following a broadhead swath through an animal, I don't feel it really matters.
However, I think (for hunting) in most cases is IS a trivial point, because the hole the vanes or feathers is following through a deer, is not one made by a field point - its much bigger. That is why I don't subscribe to the "thinner shafts penetrate so much better" theory. Sure in a target that is gripping the shaft they do, there is less shaft to grip and slowdown. But following a broadhead swath through an animal, I don't feel it really matters.
09-12-2009 | 06:00 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 654
Likes: 0
From:
Great food for thought TFox. I just wish that everyone that shoots a low KE setup like yours and BGfisher's would put as much thought into things as you two do. I know you've also done a lot of thinking and testing about what's up front because that's the end that really counts. May I ask what BH you shoot? Also, as GMMAT has asked "How much KE are we talking".
Dan
Dan
09-12-2009 | 11:02 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
Last year I was around 52.This is plenty for a pass through but it is also just enough that it could be an issue as well.This year I am mid 50's.
09-12-2009 | 11:06 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
Honestly, I never gave it any thought really. I do see how feathers would not present as much of a barrier as vanes (especially blazers or fusions) because they would lay down. Stiff vanes will have to "force" through, so to speak.
However, I think (for hunting) in most cases is IS a trivial point, because the hole the vanes or feathers is following through a deer, is not one made by a field point - its much bigger. That is why I don't subscribe to the "thinner shafts penetrate so much better" theory. Sure in a target that is gripping the shaft they do, there is less shaft to grip and slowdown. But following a broadhead swath through an animal, I don't feel it really matters.
However, I think (for hunting) in most cases is IS a trivial point, because the hole the vanes or feathers is following through a deer, is not one made by a field point - its much bigger. That is why I don't subscribe to the "thinner shafts penetrate so much better" theory. Sure in a target that is gripping the shaft they do, there is less shaft to grip and slowdown. But following a broadhead swath through an animal, I don't feel it really matters.
Many test on game animals prove this incorrect.Read some of Ashby's reports.
So through it all I've learned something that I try to tell younger fellows with higher testosterone levels than myself. Poundage, kinetic energy, momentum, speed----they are only numbers. Most don't hear me. Testosterone blocks brain function and reduces common sense.
Last edited by TFOX; 09-12-2009 at 11:12 AM.
09-12-2009 | 11:09 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
Great food for thought TFox. I just wish that everyone that shoots a low KE setup like yours and BGfisher's would put as much thought into things as you two do. I know you've also done a lot of thinking and testing about what's up front because that's the end that really counts. May I ask what BH you shoot? Also, as GMMAT has asked "How much KE are we talking".
Dan
Dan
I have shot Rocket steelheads for years,imagine that,a low energy setup using mechanicals.BUT,they outpenetrate most 3 blade heads on the market.If I were any lower,I would be a Magnus 2 blade guy (I might use the bleeders)
This year I have switched to Wasp Hammer SST 3 blade fixed heads.Just got tired of the crazy prices of some of the others.These are top notch as well.
My basic theory is this,if I get enough penetration to get to the fletch,I'll be darned if I am going to let my fletch cost me a $15 dollar arrow.Maybe more if I lose the head as well.
09-12-2009 | 11:27 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,645
Likes: 0
From: York,Pa
There is tons of things/ factors that COULD go wrong on a shot. I have not experienced any of them yet! I have complete pass thru's on all my deer with blazers. The one I shot with Rob,Matt,and Ben last year hard quartering too entered threw the back of shoulder out threw the back ham. Made the same shot on another big doe at 35 yards and arrow was stuck in ground 5 inches. Guys put me down for shooting light set up but it works no doubt I did not believe till I tried. I would shoot it against any set up! To each his own! Any set up could fail if the shot is bad. As for ribs...never had a problem but then again my deer are not as big as out west but they are not small either!
