Does the loop on your string effect draw length?
 

I have measered my arm spam and its 69" / 2 = 27.6" so my draw length is 27.5"(i was told to round down not up) so should i get a 27"draw on my bow and the loop give me a extra 1/2" or does the loop play no factor in that?

the loop adds minimally to the draw length

so if my draw length is 27.5? order a bow with a 27.5draw, not a 27"draw and let the loop give me that extra .5"?

Usually these so called formulas are for using a d-loop.I am longer than the so called formulas and have found them to be wrong quite often.

Your draw length is your draw length. Your string loop will affect your anchor point but it won't change your draw length. Lot's of guys think they can get away with extra draw length because they will use a shorter loop, but what that does is bring the string further back in relation to the eye and the face. If the draw length is too long, you will tend to turn your face away from the target and only be able to see by straining your eyes in the opposite direction your head is having to turn. I hope that makes sense. Get the correct draw length and use your loop to set your anchor point.

k thanks guys

Excellent post. :happy0001:

Like Todd (TFOX) said too... those forumlas are designed to be a starting point. They are often close but not dead on. Moreover, every bow company seems to have a different definition of exactly what an inch is.... some bows seem longer than others.

The eye really doesn't determine draw length,regardless of what many think.Your anchors are relative to your pereferences and release.There are many that do not use the corner of the mouth and nose as anchors.Although they are probably the best and easiest to repeat.


If You shoot without a loop,you NEED a longer setting on the bow to have it setup properly than with the loop so the loop affected the draw length.Your anchors will need to change and you most likely will NOT have the arrow nock in line with your eye.

A loop does affect the draw length you set the bow at.You can use short loops,long loops.Short releases,or long releases.You can anchor high or low on the face and all will determing how you setup the bows draw length to best fit you.

I really get tired of people saying your draw length is your draw length and a loop doesn't change it,that is crazy.Everything you do affects how you set the bows draw length up.


Hell,I have a level 4 coach friend that has his arrow well behind his eye and most would say it isn't correct but he is the level 4 coach with students that hold world records.


Sorry but I see this misinformation continually posted on too many forums.

I agree with this 100%, TFox. It comes down to "which came first....the chicken or the egg". To find your proper DL....you need to know how long of a loop you're gonna be utilizing (to hit your proper anchors....whatever they might be). But if you have the proper anchor points down....there's only one draw length that will be correct. Right?

So....if you then change your loop length....what has to change? It certainly won't be your DL. It'll be your anchor points.

Am I seeing this all wrong?

Now I remember why I didn't visit this forum for quite a while. My point, without being as degrading as you were to me, is that so many guys have too long a draw length and end up turning there head in order to reach back to their peep. With proper form, the distance between your eye and the front of your hand will not change. That distance doesn't determine one's draw length but that distance won't change, and it does determine how well you can see. The more you turn your eye to the side the harder it will be to see. No question. My draw length is 28" period. A 28" draw length allows me to see to my fullest potential and draw and hold to my fullest potential. I adjust everything else based on that foundation. I don't change my foundation based on the rest of the equipment I'm using. For me, It is essential to good form. I know my head will be facing the same direction every time if I have that same foundation. From there I make my adjustments...my peep height, release and loop length (to anchor point). I'll stick with what I said....Your draw length is your draw length.

I've read a lot of people more knowledgeable than me about archery argue this point back & forth over the years.
My opinion is that a loop changes your anchor not your draw length. If you refuse to change your anchor, then yes your draw length changes.

A loop will NOT change your draw length...it will however effect your anchor point.

Shoot without a loop and your draw length is longer.So HOW can a loop NOT affect your draw length? I have shot both,28 1/2" with a short loop and a 28" with a long loop.Both are correct for me and I hit all my anchors but for outdoor shooting and hunting,the 28" is more comfortable.If I were to shoot indoor,the 28 1/2" would be more comfortable.

Seems to me those that say your draw length isn't affected by a loop have NEVER shot without one.Try fingers,does that not change your draw length as well?

I do agree that your anchors change with a loop,not arguning that at all.I totally agree 100%,the only thing I dispute is your draw length can and does vary dependant upon the equipment and loop length.

28 1/2" with a short loop.Please forgive the double set.I have really gotten better with that.



28" with a short loop,definately too short.The bow shoulder is riding up and release elbow isn't back far enough.




28" with long loop,great for hunting and 3-d

I put this in the same category as leaning back as a sign of draw length being too long.Leaning back is leaning back.Draw length is independant of that.They both go under internet myths.:kt:

Most would be very well served spending some time with actuall coaches.Much can be learned on the net but to really get down to the "nuts and bolts" of it,you need one on one instruction by qualified instructors.

I guess the issue is what is the definition of draw length then. To me draw length is the distance from the front of the shelf to string at full draw. I believe that is what most would say. Draw length is not from the front of the shelf to the back of the d-loop. Am I wrong on that?

Back to your first paragraph in the quote, what I am saying is that if you are a 28" draw and you lengthen to 28.5" inches you are at the least changing the angle of your face away from the target and therefore diminishing your optimal sight picture. By maintaining the same draw length (shelf to string at full draw), you develop a consistent sight picture regardless of how long or short your loop is. From that point you customize your loop length to suit your anchor.

Draw length is a combination of all things relevant.The bows draw length does not change with a loop but the shooters draw length does.The shooters draw length is the ONLY THING that matters.The bow doesn't care.:s3:


Look at the videos and tell me where my sight picture changes.

The key are anchors,you have that figured out.Anchors can be adjusted up and down as well as forward and back.


The first video is where the coach had me.I later found I liked the shorter draw length for outdoors.BUT,the longer is still "correct" and preferred for indoors.

Technically,this is incorrect,although Mathews did say this for a while,maybe they still do.The AMO draw length is from the deepest part of the grip to the nocking point of the arrow on the string,EVEN with berger hole at full draw PLUS 1 3/4"

Todd's saved me a lot of typing over the last couple years; I used to have to try to explain everything he did -- now I just let him do all the hard work! :cool2:

I know what you mean,I love it when you and BG posts ahead of me.:s3:

There is no way I am visibly going to see a .5" difference in your sight picture on an internet video. I would struggle to see it from 6 inches away. But my point is that there is no doubt your sight picture would change because your peep is .5" closer to your eye or your anchor points are .5" further back. Take it to an extreme. Would your sight picture change if you lengthened your draw length 2 inches? Of course. Would it change if you shortened it 2 inches? Of course. My point is that the proper draw length allows you to have the proper head alignment and sight picture and then you customize your anchor point from that point.

I think most will disagree with your definition of draw length. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. If it is working for you then so be it. Keep doing it.

LOL, Todd...

To help clarify, I ran a quick search and found the last time I went on a mini-rant about the subject... :biggrin:

What does it matter if the sight picture changes? Even if it did.We are all individuals and we all are affected differently by the changes we make. MOST target archers shoot different draw lengths dependant upon what kind of shooting they are doing.AND what kind of equipment they are using.


This is not MY definition,it is the AMO standard.The industry standard,I have nothing to do with it.

AGAIN....it's the age old question of the chicken or the egg. Read my last post, again. IF YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED, CORRECT ANCHOR POINTS.....adding a loop will not affect your DL. It will change where you anchor.

To assert that it affects DL...you have to assume the archer hasn't chosen a release method. How many serious archers do you know that don't have their preference determined? I don't know any.

Agree with that. Anchor points changed. DL didn't.

Can you tell where my anchors have changed in my videos? My d-loop length changed and my draw length changed. My anchors were adjusted as well but both are correct for me in which ever venue I choose.

The problem with adjusting your anchors to fit a loop and not adjusting the draw length of the bow is your elbow slotting will be wrong.So now you need to shorten the draw length to get slotting back but anchors need to be adjusted up slightly.

Again....no issues with this. You adjusted your anchors. We're in agreement.

When your anchor adjustments affect form.....you're sacrificing something to gain.....what?

I can shoot a bow with DL's from 20" to 32". But, there's only one DL that's correct, for me. If I anchor in the correct spot for my correct DL....and THEN change my loop length, the only thing that will change is my anchor points. Whether my accuracy suffers or not.....is irrelevant.

From post #13 by me.

I do agree that your anchors change with a loop,not arguning that at all.I totally agree 100%,the only thing I dispute is your draw length can and does vary dependant upon the equipment and loop length.

Never said otherwise. What I said was...every good archer I know KNOWS his preferred release choice and fits his DL with that in mind. What other "equipment" are you referring to (if not release)?

In indoor target archery,you shoot slightly longer to get behind your shot and be able to relax into the shot.


In 3-d,you need a little more back pressure per se to be able to pull off the uphill and downhill shots,while maintaining good form and BT.

To me 3-d is about the same as hunting,others it might not be.


You can adjust BOTH,the loop and draw of the bow to get the DESIRED feel and anchors for each.

Different styles of releases,Different A-A bows,How the bow is setup,IE,loop and it's length.

All these things play a part in how the shooter will set his bow up.The draw length of the bow will vary in many cases,not just the loop length.

Again....I assumed we're talking about the same archer; utilizing the same bow and utilizing the same release method/aid. Assuming this model archer is fitted, correctly, will his DL change if his loop length changes? I would "think" this is the scenario most people are referencing.

I shot a longer DL when I switched ATA & models within the same bow co. No epiphanies, there.

Yes,all my videos was with the same bow.I might have been switching back and forth from my Carter to my BT but I shoot both at the same exact settings.28",long loop and 28 1/2" short loop.


They do not feel the same,they are different.But both are "correct" and the loop is part of that equation.

Assuming the same bow and same release,will the archer need to increase his draw length if he shoots without a loop,verses with one?


It really is as simple as that.He has to to get his BODY into the "CORRECT" shooting position.His anchors will change/adjust to ensure the body positions are correct.

We could go round and round on this, but obviously it's pointless. Your anchor changed AND your equipment changed. You've introduced criteria outside the "model" I presented.

Same archer. Same bow. Same release method.....ONLY anchor changes when loop is altered. DL will NOT change.

The question of the thread is does the loop affect the draw length.You are trying to make this 1 dimensional,it is not.


Now,to your question, if the shooter has the draw length he wants and he changes the loop length,something has to change.Anchors CAN NOT just be adjusted back because the body positions are not correct(elbow slotting).Therefore,he needs to adjust the loop back to the desired length or shorten the length of the bow,which may or may not be what he likes.Even though his body positioning is correct now.

That's a matter of "choice". But I agree....SOMETHING has to change. We just disagree on what that is.

Let me ask you a yes/no question.....

If you have determined your proper anchor position for the release aid you plan to use......and you know which bow you want to shoot.....AND you have determined the CORRECT DL for your chosen style.......

.....Now you want to change your loop for this EXACT setup.

Will your DL change if you alter your loop length (if you do not change anything else)?

Yes or no?

For you to shoot this setup....I agree....something will have to change. But that'll be your anchor points (assuming, again, you maintain proper fitting).

Using your "logic", an archer could shoot a 25" DL and a really long loop....and have the loop affect his DL. I'm a little more realistic than that. Is he still properly fitted?

Again,refer back to my other posts.

They work together.If a loop is added(where one was not previously on the bow),you can not just adjust the anchors.You must shorten the draw length.That can not be disputed,except by you.:action-smiley-099:You have a way of doing that.:s2:

That is where this whole post originated from.Does a d-loop change your draw length,the answer is yes,it does.Assuming one was absent before.

Holy cow. I give up.