Raven,

Pull your head out of your a$$ and post some worthwhile topics. Everything you post has to do with questioning the credibility of someone who killed a big deer. Get over yourself, pal!! [:@]

1st of all let me say that B&C and P&Y are private organizations. therefore they can say whatever they want about world records that they believe are or are not. just because either of these org. say its not doesnt necessarily mean its not. i guess it depends on the name because if it was ie. chuck adams they probably wouldnt have even measured it and claimed it was the world record. now about the BBB. i highly doubt anyone at the bbb cares what this guy is saying as long as he runs his business honestly and to him he honestly thinks his is a world record. now on to a better topic.

White Raven - Here' s one that you can investigate, cause it' s always bugged me. How can they call it the " World Series" , when baseball teams from other parts of the world aren' t even invited? Now there' s something that needs to be exposed!

Muskrat, I' ll put the same question to you, sort of. How long do you think it would take MLB to bring another baseball league (let' s say in Japan) to court if they started promoting the baseball play-offs there as " The World Series" . About 1/2 a second, I' d say.

Six figures and a line to take pictures with a buck! That is amazing. I guess I never thought about it that way. They probably get paid by the companies that sell scent' s and stuff as well? All for killin the big one.

I think W-R needs to get a life. How the hell do you sleep at night not knowing the deal with this deer, gotta drive YOU crazy! A piece of advice: Live a Little!

BowhuntingFool, how much time do you think it takes to make a couple of calls, talk to some people and make a few postings. About 25 minutes....tops. You could read every posting on Zaft in about 10 minutes. And what' s not to know about Zaft. The facts are well known. a farmer finds a mostly eaten carcass in a field, Zaft hears about it (second hand I might add, the farmer never informed Zaft directly) Zaft pops by and claims it' s the one he arrowed the day before even though no mention of the deer was made to anyone previous to the deer being found, he heralds himself as the new World record holder by bow, P&Y reject his claim in March, downgrading the score dramatically. Sounds pretty straight forward to me. The only thing that isn' t straight forward is Zaft' s story as I believe there are several variations of it with major discrepacies between them. Here are some interesting observations comparing two stories by Zaft reagrding this as told in North American Whitetail and Buckmasters magazines......................................... .......(originally posted by Brad Lantz of Arkansas):
" Here are the two stories as they are printed. I will paraphrase them and show the differences. North American Whitetail (NAW) issue came in Jan 2002, Big Buck Magazine (BBM) came out with their issue in May I believe (Spring issue)

NAW - " Was this really happening ?(Zaft)An incredibly massive whitetail buck with a high tined rack was trotting my way. He was about 150 yards out and coming along the brush line I was in"

BBM " Then out of the corner of his eye he (Zaft)picked up movement. Peering up he glimpsed a massive buck lazily meandering towards him ..."

NAW " As the buck went behind some thick, leafy cover, I bounded about 15 yards forward and stopped, still standing, near a large broken-off poplar. I took several deep breaths, trying desperately to calm myself in the face of this shocking developement."

BBM " Instinctively, Wayne nocked an arrow and hunkered down in hopes of getting an up close and personal opportunity of a lifetime "

NAW " The buck was closing the distance and hardly breaking stride. In front of me I had a good opening for a shooting lane, one about 8 yards wide where I though the buck would enter. I estimated the distance to this point at 34 yards, well within my comfortable shooting range as an experienced 3-D tournament shooter and bowhunter."

BBM " Patiently watching the buck wander in his general direction, Wayne was granted a privilaged glimpse as the whitetail worked his rub line. The giant buck eventually leapt a barbed-wire fence and began to saunter away but still paralleling Waynes position. At one point the buck was 20 yards but didn' t present any sort of ethical shot opportunity. ............ Continuing his vigil, Wayne waited patiently. Then it happened. Recognizing his small window of opportunity, Wayne drew his 67 pound compound bow and took aim. At just that moment the buck jumped the fence a second time. Then, just as the hooves hit the ground, Wayne zeroed his 30 yard pin on the massive ches, focused and released all in a matter of two seconds"

NAW " As the deer entered my shooting lane, I drew in one fluid motion and then grunted with my voice to stop him. He gave no reaction so I grunted again- this time somewhat louder. The buck slowed to a walk and he looked my way however he wasn' t stopping and my shooting window was closing quickly. I had to take a shot NOW to have a good chance at a clean kill" " I saw my Carbon Express arrow strike the deer a bit high and far back. The Gametracker First Cut 125-grain broadhead passed completely through him."

BBM " Hitting the deer slightly back from the lungs, the buck lunged forward and raced away, with his head and belly to the ground.

NAW " The giant buck bounded away, I noticed no sign of a fatal hit. As I stood there, I was overwhelmed with anxiety as that sinking feeling of " a bad hit" flooded through me."

" I chastised myself for misjudgint he distance (just under 30 yards instead of 34 yards) and hurrying the shot."

BBM (no mention of what Zaft thought of the hit)

NAW " I waited for probably the longest 40 minutes of my life all the while reliving the shot scenario and trying to convince myself that maybe the shot had been better than I envisioned"

BBM - " Then after 30 minutes, Wayne proceeded."

NAW " I could easily see where the deers cloven hooves had torn up ground, but I could find no blood. Finally, I found a couple of small droplets on some leaves but no more"

BBM " Confirming his suspicions, the blood (from the arrow) was darker than he' d hoped for, suggesting he' d hit the buck in the back half of the body.

" he made the wise decision to wait and allow the buck to bed down and expire."

NAW " After losing the trail, I started making short loops through the trees. Soon night fell over the land and to me it felt like defeat"

The rest of the story is pretty much the same. NAW makes it sound like Zaft heard the farmer had found a deer, BBM says Zaft asked the farmer. NAW was first person (Zaft) and BBM was retold. I can see huge differences in the story. I called Big Buck Magazine and told them my concern. I taled to Gary Donald and he said the story was written as Zaft told it. Why the discrepencies ? He didn' t know.

Ya' ll tell me now, was the first story true or the second ? Did Zaft stay put or move ? Was the buck trotting or working a scrape line leisurley ? Was there a barb wire fence or not ? Did Zaft grunt at the deer or not ? Did it run off appearing hit (head down and belly low) or did he run off appearing unwounded ? Did Zaft find first blood or not ? Did he lose the trail first or decide to stop looking ??"

Boy, white raven you really have a problem, you are almost obsessed with Wayne Zaft. You should get some help. How do you proclaim to know so much? were do you get all this info from, have you actually spoken to Wayne Zaft? Just to set you straight on a few things. If you look in the Buckmasters expo 2002 official show program, you will see on page 26 it states see TWO NEW BTR WORLD RECORDS FROM THE 2001 SEASON. One being Wayne Zaft' s, the other being the Wilson buck. If I knew how to put the advertisement on here I would. This was put in the BUCKMASTERS SHOW PROGRAM by BUCKMASTERS. You say Buckmasters proclaims Zaft' s deer to be number 1 only in one category, what other category do you think it should be in, Under P&Y, would' nt it also only be in one category? P&Y and B&C are not God and there are many other scoring organiztions that could recognize Wayne' s deer as a WORLD RECORD. The Beatty buck is recognized as a world record and it is' nt in P&Y or B&C. It is recognized in BUCMASTERS and SAFARI CLUB and it is advertised as a world record.

They (P&Y) have more authority, it is their scroing system ya know....

yea the greed of some of these guys is unreal but not all of them. Mike Beatty had his buck there had it out on display,awsome buck but Hanson had his in a back room so you couldn' t even look at it if you didn' t pay the ten dollars but hey to each his own theres to much negativity around today but I think most of us still deer hunt for the enjoyment

B&C and P&Y have the authority because they were organized as non-profit institutions BY HUNTERS to represent their interests and oversee the records keeping. Buckmasters and whatever else is out there are businesses and dollars are what they' re after.

Not saying there aren' t some aspects of the records keeping that stink to high heaven in both orgs. I' d like to see the animals listed in the books with no mention of the hunter, at all. Greed is really grating away at the books' credibility.