(NON) pass-thru issues....
 

For those of you who think pass-thrus aren't that important....I've been thinking about this today.

First....I can't think of anything I'd rather have (other than the deer down in sight) MORE than the arrow at the POI. No pass-thu.....no ability to examine the arrow.

Second.....the cost factor. I've lost a few heads and at least 4 arrows because the arrow was either never found.....or the arrow was broken inside the animal. That adds up.

Add that up.....and it's upwards of $100 lost due to not getting a pass-thru. That would buy a lot of BH's.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Will you just get a damn fixed head already?!

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Oh I'm going to for '09, Al. Just trying to figure out which one.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Good, you wont regret it, less moving parts the better IMO.

My old bear passed arrows through every deer that I shot with it using muzzy heads. Even though that bow was lobbing em in like hand grenades....

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I remember you saying u hadn't had a passthru all season or something like that. I haven't not had a passtru on an animal since I was a sparkle in my Daddy's eye..or darn near close. I honestly can't remember..and we have big deer and elk compared to those lab size NC/FL key deer ya shoot[8D] And I shoot 60# and you shoot a 70#???? I don't get it?????? My 11 year old son with his 30# Browning micro midas got a pass thru on his 1st deer. A whitetail is a thin skinned fragile animal... like cutting butter with a hot knife

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Don:

Come on down any time and take a 200# NC buck and we'll talk[8D]

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I didn't know yellow labs got that big.[8D]

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I agree with you Jeff. Only passthrough I haven't had in a few years was last season, my fault with the shot on a doe at 35 yards. She didn't go far but busted my carbon/aluminum arrow when she rolled over on it. I like passthroughs for the fact you can examine the arrow and tell a lot about the hit.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Don...

If you wanna make fun of the deer I shoot.......go ahead.

I'll chalk it up to low-class and move on.;)

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

teasin dude. southern deer are smaller bodied and I have been to NC,GA,and FL and I have seen deer full grown there that are the size of a lab. I just can't imagine how my 11 yr old with low poundage has arrow an go through and you can't..Baffles the heck out of me as like I said..MINE ALWAYS GO THROUGH and stick in the frozen dirt 2-4 inches. Not exaggerating. Deer are fragile and none of their bones are even all that thick. Sure, a dead on shoulder shot..but a well placed arrow in the pump zone has no where to go but in the dirt on the other side.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

HCH, no offense meant but whose the girl in the pic under your name? Girlfriend, daughter? Yeah I'm being nosey[8D].

Back to the passthrough thread................

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I've killed 20 deer in the last 3 seasons.....and had (let me think).......less than 1/2 achieve a pass-thru where the arrow was stuck in the ground at the POI.

As far as the size of our deer, here.....I can't kill what isn't here. I'll match what I've taken with most hunting similar grounds. I've taken6 bucks here that were between 170-200#'s......and I've taken only one (injured) 1.5 yr oldbuck (out of 7 taken).

For reference on the pass-thrus.....I made shots this year (without pass-thrus) of 8yds, 23yds, 10yds, 5yds, 32yds and 5yds. NOT ONE was a complete pass-thru (where the arrow was sticking in the ground).Not one of these shots.....am I ashamed of (actually proud of every one...and I have photos to substantiate why I am). Not one. Something's gotta change....andI'll start at the end of my arrow for '09.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Jeff, You have done good with your kills and your hunting..not arguing..but I feel I could stick a piece of flint arrowhead on my arrow and get a complete passthru everytime..bows are fast and deer are fragile..It baffles me. You shootin spitfire gobbler getters with a treble hook mounted on the end?

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

She is my exwife, my girlfriend, buddy, and my best fishin friend.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I do see where HCH is comming from...my recurve passed my arrow through on friday...[&:]

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I'm with Hardcore. I don't remember the last time I DIDN'T have a pass through and I'm talking distances out to 40 yards. Fixed heads just get it done. There are a ton of them that do the job. I shot Thunderheads for a lot of years. The last couple I've shot the Shuttle T. Muzzy and a few others would do just fine also.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I just killed my 5th deer on Fri afternoon, a huge doe about 120 lbs, again I shot this deer in the spine....this is the 3 rd time I have made this shot this year...Im shooting a rage 2 blade and i can't understand what is going on...Im not doing it on purpose....I did not get a pass thru obviously on those 3 deer, I did get a pass thru on 2 of the 5 deer with the rage 2 blade....Yes, they leave a huge hole, and if I hd been shooting a fixed blade on those three spine shots, I wouldn't have killed them I don't think...I think the wide cutting dia clipped the nerves in the spine....still, not what I want...I can't say that the Rages have been out of this world,but they have done the job....however, I like pass thrus, and when and if i can get a shot at deer that is perfectly broadside at 20-25 yds and shoot it with the rage I will let you know about pass thrus for them...I never had the issue with Muzzy..I may go back to the Muzzy next yr or i may stick with the Rage....but I do want pass thrus, it's better, why would anyone not want them??

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

The only passthrough I didn't get in the last 5 years was on the buck I just got. I hit his front leg on the oppisite side but the broadhead made it through the bone. Are you hitting alot of bones.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Don...

I shoot the same bow brand you do.....except mine's faster and probably producing more KE.

Doe No. 1....shot at 8yds from 23' up. As you can see....I got an exit wound....but no solid pass-thru. The arrow was broken inside the doe.

Entrance



Exit



Doe no. 2....again...entrance and exit wound....but never found the arrow. She was found about 50-60yds from the POI. The off side of this doe revealed the liver was hit, also.



Doe no. 3.....shot at 10yds from 23' up. I found the arrow about 10yds from the POI.



Doe no. 4 was shot from 5yds at 23' up. Heart shot her....but the arrow was broken inside her and I never found the BH end.



Again....I'm not exactly shoulder shooting these deer.;)

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Maybe your too high up? You are going through a lot more "deer" at steeper angles I would say...

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I shot nice 8 pt this season , no pass throughand he didn't go 50 yds from tree . 15yd shot, Mathews Drenalin 65#, 100 gr Grim Reapers, double lung shot, slite quartering away.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

forgot to add...71# 362 gr arrow..280 fps...I got 8 pass thrus out of 9 last year with a very light 309 gr arrow!!! the difference....Muzzy head last year...

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

VA....I used muzzy's exclusively in '06......taking 5 whitetails with ONE pass-thru.[&:]

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Jeff Im not sure what's going then...last year my bow was set up at 74# with a 90 gr muzzy and an arrow weight of 309 gr!! like I said, I got 8 out of 9 pass thrus[&:]I did not know my arrow was that light, or else I would have shot a much heavier arrow....only thing I can think to try is up the # ?? have you killed a deer with the new arrow set up??

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Sounds to me like you are aiming for the wrong spot. You are not supposed to aim for the front shoulder but just behind it!!

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

The problem is real easy to fix and you already know the solution. Quit usinga 2" cutting diameter mechanical. It is funny(not ha ha funny but ironic funny) that you are changing to a fixed after you so vehemently defended the Rage a year ago while I trashed on it and now I am using the Rage and am satisfied (so far).

I may ultimately switch back to the fixed, I don't know. For now I guess I'll keep using a little of both. Yes, an arrow at POI is important and can help one determine how to go about recovery, but I have not (so far) had a problem knowing what kind of hit I made by seeing the impact, but more importantly watching the reaction of the deer.

At this point ,I have decided that a good blood trailis more important to me than the arrow. When everything goes right and the deer is down in 30-60 yards it doesn't usually matter. But what about when you don't make the perfect shot? I have had to grid search to find a lot of deer that were hit fair but not perfect (livers and one lungs) with my fixed whereas with the Rage I have always had a good blood trail that have led in 100% sucessful recovery even though two of them were marginal shots(a 1 lung and aliver).

And for the fixed proponents who try andsay the blood trail is just as good on a consistent basis with the fixed as compared to the Rage, well.....they probably aren't being 100% forthcoming with you or themselves anymore than all the Rage proponents who are reluctant to talk about the lesser number of complete pass thrus.

As far as the cost, that is really not a priority for me but I concur you will have more lost/broken arrows with the Rage plus the heads are more expensive to begin with.

Bottomline....even though I am currently using the Rage on at least half of my deer (4 out of 6 this year, 3 out 7 last year), I wouldn't even try and recommend it to someone that says a complete pass thru is a "must" for broadhead choice. I also will not even consider them for elk even though I know some have.

One more thing. Why wait until next year? Go buy a pack of a popular fixed BH, make sure they are flying accurately, and go kill a doe. Not that one deer validates anything, but it would be a start and I would be interested in your objective impression of the blood trail comparison.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I think the rage heads burn a LOT of energy up as they go through an animal. That's what I think it is.

We'll find out!;)

Jack...

I'll STILL vehemently defend the rage head. It's a great head. I just want more pass-thrus. It hurt me (in my mind) on only one deer, this year (not getting a pass-thru).

As for not waiting 'til next year......I just don't want to go through the tuning process, really....and I'll betrying to bag my first deer with the longbow in the last remaining 6 days of my season.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

The last 8 deer I have shot have been with Muzzys. I have had 7 pass throughs, with the one non pass through being at a severe angle after the buck turned. I even had pass throughs with my old Bear Whitetail bow and aluminum arrows.:) I want a pass through every time as the arrow is the vital link to any tracking job that may take place.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

yep what Brett said.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Did you even read any of the first few pages?

Completely fair question...

I can only say I practiced with those BH's out to 50yds. I never had tailing issues with them. If my bow wasn't in tune.....would it not have been visually discernable at those shot distances? Honest question.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Not to mentionthat with a passthru, 2 holes are dripping blood instead of one. Plus an arrow lodged in animal plugs arteries and keeps it alive by acting like a compression on the wound.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

I didn't read this until I already posted. I don't know what to tell you other than I am surprised. I have never generated the KE that you have andI have killed many deer with the Muzzy 3 blade and have always had a complete pass thru with the exception of one time when it was poor shot selection on my part.


Being that was your first year, how comfortable are you (now in retrospect) that your bow was properly tuned that year?

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Pretty well sums it up

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=801539

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

You are correct. However, a partial pass through does this as well. Even though i haven't had complete pass thru's on any, I've had partials on 5 of 7 in which the arrow was found within 30 yards of the POI.

On the other two, certainly a valid point that you are making and if I continue to use them, someday I may pay the price. But so far, the two that weren't even partials still left a trail as good as my Muzzy's and there was a dead deer at the end of the trail.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

YeahI used the teken mechanical 100 grain when Iarrowed my buck this year. Thearrow didnt go through it was a clean hit. the blade only halfway opened up and the hole was tiny!! Barely any blood it ran 250 yards and finally died. the arrow hit the back rib and skimmed toward the liver into the guts. plus the tip was bent a little! I shot my doe this year with a Montec 100grain fixed blade and that deer bleed all over the place only ran 30 yards and died plus had a great pass through. I use a Mathews Switchback at 70 pounds with 27 inch draw That teken should of went through!!!

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Don...

Honestly....what's your point? I'm showing you exactly where I hit the deer.....lol. I'm not ashamed nor do I feel "inferior" because my equipment (the shot placement isn't a question now, is it???) isn't producing pass-thrus. I'm just trying to fix it.

And don't believe everything you read on the internet. Go back over there and ask the guys on AT what their maximum"effective range" is. Report back. That ought to peg my bull **** meter as much as asking people about pass-thrus.

There's nothing virtuousin getting them.....lol.:D

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

No, Ididn't waste my time. Didn't need to. I got the just of it in the other three threads you've started on the same topic.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Making the point that you r in the minority with no pass thrus and you aren't going to get a pass thru with a treble hook on the end of the arrow attached to a Gobbler Guillotine. I guess I just don't know why u keep questioning why u don't get pass thrus when Almost everybody else on the survey here and on AT get pass thrus. Get a slicktrick on the end of your arrow or any other fixed head, turn your bow down to 30# and get a firm grip on your arrow as you pull it out of the dirt with blood all over it as it just easily blew through the vitals. No reason to get defensive..u are a smart guy..the answer has been given to you.

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Hey goherd.....I mean ....congrats and all on your first deer (sincerely)....but based on the wound in this pic.....I'm trying to figure out why you're coming onto a thread JUST to berate MY shot placement? What gives?

RE: (NON) pass-thru issues....
 

Goherd says, "do as I say, not as I do"