Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
11-06-2008, 03:19 PM
#101
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: MN/Kyle
Are you that guy affiliated with Rage?
Actually, you will have a decrease in blood loss if the arrow is still in the deer. How could you not?
I've never heard someone say "oh yeah, pass through baby...but the arrow is still in the deer".
I'll stick with my strikers, and have an arrow to look at before taking a trail.
ORIGINAL: annika3
Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to state the obvious.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Thanks. I've been saying this all along.
Hence my fact finding mission. And....the reason I purchased some fixed heads, today to test.
Exactly, and I dont think anyone knows the answer to this, whether they claim to or not.
if you arent getting pass thrus into the dirt, assuming this is better, then Id look to a smaller Diameter COC head than a 2" rage, if you are happy with having bigger gashes and the arrow remaining in deer, stay with the devastating rage.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
Actually, you will have a decrease in blood loss if the arrow is still in the deer. How could you not?
I've never heard someone say "oh yeah, pass through baby...but the arrow is still in the deer".
I'll stick with my strikers, and have an arrow to look at before taking a trail.
The arrow and BH will NOT DO ANY MORE DAMAGE once it exits the deer. IMO I would prefer a 2" cutting diameter BH going all the way through a deer and sticking out the opposite side (if I don't get a complete passthrough with the arrow stuck in the ground) over a 1" head stuck 6" into the ground.
Which of these 2 scenarios is going to inflict more damage to the deer?
Shoot what you want but too many people are worried about "I found my arrow 6" burried in the ground" after it went through the deer. Again, my opinion is you wasted energy by killing the ground and not the deer.
But again, I state, that I too would always like a complete passthrough to see my arrow and get the information from it. But depending on what you hit as you go through the deer you may not get that passthrough no matter what BH you use.
11-06-2008, 03:23 PM
#102
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 6,006
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
Too much of a good thing is a bad thing then?
Wasted energy? In bowhunting? Give me a break.
It's much better to have too much than not enough.
Jeff, if you really want to experiment, let me look at work tomorrow. I may have some old weight tubes sitting around that I can send you. If I don't have them your local shop should. They're made by Carbon Express and fit inside any normal 5/16" diameter shaft. Easy way to up your weight without buying new arrows.
Wasted energy? In bowhunting? Give me a break.
It's much better to have too much than not enough.
Jeff, if you really want to experiment, let me look at work tomorrow. I may have some old weight tubes sitting around that I can send you. If I don't have them your local shop should. They're made by Carbon Express and fit inside any normal 5/16" diameter shaft. Easy way to up your weight without buying new arrows.
11-06-2008, 03:36 PM
#103
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,465
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
Jeff, From OnTarget2...using calculated velocities nor chronoed velocities
My 481 grn arrow should be shooting in the mid 270s, with 82.14 ft/lbs KE.
If I switched to a 360 grain arrow, my speed should bump up to 306fps, but 82.14 dwindles down to 72.98 ft/lbs KE.
So by using calculated speeds, there is a 10 ft/lb KE difference....granted this will likely be less when I chrono it, it still kind of shocks me.
Im intrigued enough to go chrono my bow now with the two weights and plug the numbers in to compare....perhaps the weight difference helps more than I originally thought.
Using those speeds and weights in a standard KE calculator, I get 81.97 and 74.87 respectively...still a noticeable difference.
My 481 grn arrow should be shooting in the mid 270s, with 82.14 ft/lbs KE.
If I switched to a 360 grain arrow, my speed should bump up to 306fps, but 82.14 dwindles down to 72.98 ft/lbs KE.
So by using calculated speeds, there is a 10 ft/lb KE difference....granted this will likely be less when I chrono it, it still kind of shocks me.
Im intrigued enough to go chrono my bow now with the two weights and plug the numbers in to compare....perhaps the weight difference helps more than I originally thought.
Using those speeds and weights in a standard KE calculator, I get 81.97 and 74.87 respectively...still a noticeable difference.
11-06-2008, 03:43 PM
#105
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,911
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: annika3
Hey pal, read my earlier post, I said I would always like to get a "complete" passthrough so I too can get the information off my arrow. BUT
The arrow and BH will NOT DO ANY MORE DAMAGE once it exits the deer. IMO I would prefer a 2" cutting diameter BH going all the way through a deer and sticking out the opposite side (if I don't get a complete passthrough with the arrow stuck in the ground) over a 1" head stuck 6" into the ground.
Which of these 2 scenarios is going to inflict more damage to the deer?
ORIGINAL: MN/Kyle
Are you that guy affiliated with Rage?
Actually, you will have a decrease in blood loss if the arrow is still in the deer. How could you not?
I've never heard someone say "oh yeah, pass through baby...but the arrow is still in the deer".
I'll stick with my strikers, and have an arrow to look at before taking a trail.
ORIGINAL: annika3
Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to state the obvious.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Thanks. I've been saying this all along.
Hence my fact finding mission. And....the reason I purchased some fixed heads, today to test.
Exactly, and I dont think anyone knows the answer to this, whether they claim to or not.
if you arent getting pass thrus into the dirt, assuming this is better, then Id look to a smaller Diameter COC head than a 2" rage, if you are happy with having bigger gashes and the arrow remaining in deer, stay with the devastating rage.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
Actually, you will have a decrease in blood loss if the arrow is still in the deer. How could you not?
I've never heard someone say "oh yeah, pass through baby...but the arrow is still in the deer".
I'll stick with my strikers, and have an arrow to look at before taking a trail.
The arrow and BH will NOT DO ANY MORE DAMAGE once it exits the deer. IMO I would prefer a 2" cutting diameter BH going all the way through a deer and sticking out the opposite side (if I don't get a complete passthrough with the arrow stuck in the ground) over a 1" head stuck 6" into the ground.
Which of these 2 scenarios is going to inflict more damage to the deer?
Better change of losing a deer with an arrow stuck in it:
a) Not as much blood loss
b) Risk of jumping the deer because you don't have an arrow to inspect.
11-06-2008, 04:46 PM
#107
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
120 gr addition of weight means a slight loss of KE? I'd like to chrono my bow and see that. If I'm wrong I have no issues admitting that, either. Promise.
If I switch to a COC fixed head for a while......I won't worry too much about the KE. People shoot WAY less pounds and speeds than I shoot with those heads. THE reason I strive for more KE is the fact I shoot the mechanicals.
What's the heaviest arrow I can shoot that's properly spined (if I shoot a 100gr. head)? Also....what's the effect on spine? FOC?
If I switch to a COC fixed head for a while......I won't worry too much about the KE. People shoot WAY less pounds and speeds than I shoot with those heads. THE reason I strive for more KE is the fact I shoot the mechanicals.
What's the heaviest arrow I can shoot that's properly spined (if I shoot a 100gr. head)? Also....what's the effect on spine? FOC?
11-06-2008, 04:48 PM
#108
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Indiana (southern)
Posts: 6,146
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
Jeff here is my setup. 67 lbs guardian shooting a relativly light 354 grain arrow. two blade 100 grain rages. The Doe i just shot was 20 yards. The shot was a pass through comming out in the middle of the opposite shoulder. I have shot two turkeys with them. One was in the wing joint at 18 yards. it went half in and half out the othe side. perfect for turkeys. The other i have no idea. The shot was in the neck/chest at fifteen yards in some weeds. the bird dropped dead but my arrow was laying on the ground in front of it but with no blood other that the first 8 inches [&:]im thinking i bounced it off the spine.
11-06-2008, 04:53 PM
#109
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
What's the heaviest arrow I can shoot that's properly spined (if I shoot a 100gr. head)? Also....what's the effect on spine? FOC?
What's the heaviest arrow I can shoot that's properly spined (if I shoot a 100gr. head)? Also....what's the effect on spine? FOC?
You could probably get something similar out of your bow since it is faster. If that arrow with a rage on it didn't passthru I'll pay for the arrows you made like that
.