Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
11-06-2008 | 02:57 PM
#91
Fork Horn
Joined: May 2006
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RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Thanks. I've been saying this all along.
Hence my fact finding mission. And....the reason I purchased some fixed heads, today to test.
Exactly, and I dont think anyone knows the answer to this, whether they claim to or not.
if you arent getting pass thrus into the dirt, assuming this is better, then Id look to a smaller Diameter COC head than a 2" rage, if you are happy with having bigger gashes and the arrow remaining in deer, stay with the devastating rage.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
11-06-2008 | 02:58 PM
#92
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,333
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From: West Tennessee
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: LouisianaTomkat
You are kiddin' right? If an one arrow is wider than another, there is more surface mass (Not weight mass). If the same "weight" arrow has more "surface" mass it will take more KE for a pass thru.A smaller "surface" mass arrow, will out penetrate a larger "surface" mass arrow of the same weight every time. This, considering you do not have a 2" cutting surface trying to plow all the way thru a deer's body. I am speaking of using Fixed heads.
Sorta like trying to shove a greasy BB up a Bull's ass compared to shoving a bowling ball up same said Bull's ass. It will slide in a lot easier if it is smaller.
LT
500 grains is 500 grains, whether it is 1 mm wide arrow or 2" wide arrow.
Sorta like trying to shove a greasy BB up a Bull's ass compared to shoving a bowling ball up same said Bull's ass. It will slide in a lot easier if it is smaller.
LT
11-06-2008 | 03:00 PM
#93
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,911
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From: Minnesota
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: annika3
Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to state the obvious.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Thanks. I've been saying this all along.
Hence my fact finding mission. And....the reason I purchased some fixed heads, today to test.
Exactly, and I dont think anyone knows the answer to this, whether they claim to or not.
if you arent getting pass thrus into the dirt, assuming this is better, then Id look to a smaller Diameter COC head than a 2" rage, if you are happy with having bigger gashes and the arrow remaining in deer, stay with the devastating rage.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
Actually, you will have a decrease in blood loss if the arrow is still in the deer. How could you not?
I've never heard someone say "oh yeah, pass through baby...but the arrow is still in the deer".
I'll stick with my strikers, and have an arrow to look at before taking a trail.
11-06-2008 | 03:01 PM
#94
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 0
From: West Tennessee
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: annika3
Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to state the obvious.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Thanks. I've been saying this all along.
Hence my fact finding mission. And....the reason I purchased some fixed heads, today to test.
Exactly, and I dont think anyone knows the answer to this, whether they claim to or not.
if you arent getting pass thrus into the dirt, assuming this is better, then Id look to a smaller Diameter COC head than a 2" rage, if you are happy with having bigger gashes and the arrow remaining in deer, stay with the devastating rage.
A BH, once it is sticking out the other side, is a passthrough. The bh has done its damage and will do no more damage once it exits the deer and sticks in the dirt. And with a 2" Rage, the arrow will not plug up the hole because the hole is much bigger than the arrow. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but "6" into the dirt" is overrated. I believe we all want to put the animal down quick and to inflict the most damage possibleto put the animal down quick and that is what th Rage does. Bowhunting is not a game of "my arrow sticks in the ground 6" after a passthrough".
Also, I'll agree that in your scenario, the broadhead has "passed through", but I don't consider that a pass-through. I believe the term refers to the arrow, not the broadhead.
11-06-2008 | 03:03 PM
#95
Thread Starter
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
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RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
annika:
With all due respect....you seem to think I'm looking for my arrow to stick 6" in the ground upon exiting the deer. That's not giving me too much credit.
I want to see my arrow to discern all I can RE: the quality of the hit. If it's in the deer....I can't rightfully do that.
With all due respect....you seem to think I'm looking for my arrow to stick 6" in the ground upon exiting the deer. That's not giving me too much credit.
I want to see my arrow to discern all I can RE: the quality of the hit. If it's in the deer....I can't rightfully do that.
11-06-2008 | 03:08 PM
#96
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,333
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From: West Tennessee
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
To be honest,GMMAT, I'm a bit surprised by a lot of the responses. By all accounts, my Grim Reapers shouldn't penetrate as well as the rage because they open "jack-knife" style. Since I started bowhunting last year, I've killed 9 deer with them, and every one has been a "COMPLETE" pass through (the "COMPLETE" is added for annika).
I'm shooting a little heavier arrows - they weigh in at 520 grains total weight. 70# @ 29.5" @ 270 fps. There has to be something to the heavier arrow. Oh, and for LT, they're GT 7595's- larger diameter arrows that pass through wonderfully.
Sorry... forgot what my own draw length was.[:@]
I'm shooting a little heavier arrows - they weigh in at 520 grains total weight. 70# @ 29.5" @ 270 fps. There has to be something to the heavier arrow. Oh, and for LT, they're GT 7595's- larger diameter arrows that pass through wonderfully.
Sorry... forgot what my own draw length was.[:@]
11-06-2008 | 03:13 PM
#97
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,911
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From: Minnesota
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: LittleChief
To be honest,GMMAT, I'm a bit surprised by a lot of the responses. By all accounts, my Grim Reapers shouldn't penetrate as well as the rage because they open "jack-knife" style. Since I started bowhunting last year, I've killed 9 deer with them, and every one has been a "COMPLETE" pass through (the "COMPLETE" is added for annika).
I'm shooting a little heavier arrows - they weigh in at 520 grains total weight. 70# @ 29" @ 270 fps. There has to be something to the heavier arrow. Oh, and for LT, they're GT 7595's- larger diameter arrows that pass through wonderfully.
To be honest,GMMAT, I'm a bit surprised by a lot of the responses. By all accounts, my Grim Reapers shouldn't penetrate as well as the rage because they open "jack-knife" style. Since I started bowhunting last year, I've killed 9 deer with them, and every one has been a "COMPLETE" pass through (the "COMPLETE" is added for annika).
I'm shooting a little heavier arrows - they weigh in at 520 grains total weight. 70# @ 29" @ 270 fps. There has to be something to the heavier arrow. Oh, and for LT, they're GT 7595's- larger diameter arrows that pass through wonderfully.
11-06-2008 | 03:15 PM
#98
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
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RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
KE is easily calculable. Add 120gr to my current arrow.....chrono it....and there ya go.
Now explain the difference in "momentum" and how that becomes more "optimal" when the KE goes DOWN (which you must know it WILL DO when you add 120 gr of arrow weight). This says nothing to spine issues, either. You're either going to have to add it at the head (FOC AND spine issues?) or in the shaft/fletching area (FOC AND spine issues?).
KE is easily calculable. Add 120gr to my current arrow.....chrono it....and there ya go.
Now explain the difference in "momentum" and how that becomes more "optimal" when the KE goes DOWN (which you must know it WILL DO when you add 120 gr of arrow weight). This says nothing to spine issues, either. You're either going to have to add it at the head (FOC AND spine issues?) or in the shaft/fletching area (FOC AND spine issues?).
Spine issues are a non factor, add a weight tube inside the shaft which evenly distributes the weight or shoot a different properly spined arrow in the new weight range. the weight doesnt have to be added to head or nock on current shaft.
11-06-2008 | 03:18 PM
#99
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,465
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From:
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
ORIGINAL: LouisianaTomkat
You are kiddin' right? If an one arrow is wider than another, there is more surface mass (Not weight mass). If the same "weight" arrow has more "surface" mass it will take more KE for a pass thru.A smaller "surface" mass arrow, will out penetrate a larger "surface" mass arrow of the same weight every time. This, considering you do not have a 2" cutting surface trying to plow all the way thru a deer's body. I am speaking of using Fixed heads.
Sorta like trying to shove a greasy BB up a Bull's ass compared to shoving a bowling ball up same said Bull's ass. It will slide in a lot easier if it is smaller.
LT
500 grains is 500 grains, whether it is 1 mm wide arrow or 2" wide arrow.
Sorta like trying to shove a greasy BB up a Bull's ass compared to shoving a bowling ball up same said Bull's ass. It will slide in a lot easier if it is smaller.
LT
Your point is sound, but it doesnt have anything at all to do with mass. 500 grns is 500 grns.
With a sharp object cutting a path before it too, I dont see this being a very crucial factor with BHs....with a fieldpoint, the narrower shaft will penetrate noticeably better.
11-06-2008 | 03:19 PM
#100
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 336
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From: Franklin WI USA
RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
I use the 100gr Rage 2 blades and have had all complete pass throughs (stuck in ground) and 1 which was an extreme quartering awayangle that entered by the paunch and exited the brisket, but the shaft remained in the deer for several yards. Love the heads.
I shoot 70# on my bow so I'm generating good KE with a 370 gr arrow
I shoot 70# on my bow so I'm generating good KE with a 370 gr arrow