why did michigan ban baiting
09-23-2008, 12:04 PM
#21
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scranton, PA
Posts: 408
RE: why did michigan ban baiting
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
Baiting is unethical and isn't hunting...you aren't "hunting" anything. Lots of states have banned all sorts of baiting including any sort of preseason feeds...I know for a fact here in PA if your caught feeding anything to deer its a $5000 fine. I have a friend who was caught on camera putting corn in a trough and the fish and game officer wrote him the fine on the spot.
[/blockquote]
lol I have a buddy that worked for an outfitter in Texas that is often mentioned on here....they hunted baited stands....he said rifle hunting was a breeze, but bow hunting there was the hardest thing he'd done.....he said "Have you ever tried to draw a bow with 25-30 does feeding below you and not get caught???" He has a point.
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
Baiting is unethical and isn't hunting...you aren't "hunting" anything. Lots of states have banned all sorts of baiting including any sort of preseason feeds...I know for a fact here in PA if your caught feeding anything to deer its a $5000 fine. I have a friend who was caught on camera putting corn in a trough and the fish and game officer wrote him the fine on the spot.
[/blockquote]
lol I have a buddy that worked for an outfitter in Texas that is often mentioned on here....they hunted baited stands....he said rifle hunting was a breeze, but bow hunting there was the hardest thing he'd done.....he said "Have you ever tried to draw a bow with 25-30 does feeding below you and not get caught???" He has a point.
As I said earlier look up hunting in the dictionary Your not hunting when your baiting. Take is as you want I CAN afford an organized hunt but choose to "HUNT" not have someone show me where to hunt.
09-23-2008, 12:09 PM
#23
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scranton, PA
Posts: 408
RE: why did michigan ban baiting
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
Well my friend if you would like to come to pennsylvania or just get pictures...you can see the deer population in PA is extremely health CWD happens when overpopulation meets under Vegitated areas colorado and montana are perfect examples not lots of vegitation compared to pennsylvania or tennesee or places like that. And im not saying that only southern deer but ive seen missouri deer with this problem. Ive never seen a deer in a well vegetated area with this disease..I might be mistaken but if im wrong ill admit my error.
[/blockquote]
can you really explain what you mean by under vegitated
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
Well my friend if you would like to come to pennsylvania or just get pictures...you can see the deer population in PA is extremely health CWD happens when overpopulation meets under Vegitated areas colorado and montana are perfect examples not lots of vegitation compared to pennsylvania or tennesee or places like that. And im not saying that only southern deer but ive seen missouri deer with this problem. Ive never seen a deer in a well vegetated area with this disease..I might be mistaken but if im wrong ill admit my error.
[/blockquote]
can you really explain what you mean by under vegitated
http://www.suwanneeriverranch.com/WTinfo.htm this is my source so no plagerism
WHITETAIL DIET
The whitetail dietary flexibility stops at grass. They did not develop into grazers like some of the other deer species. They did not develop the special teeth or stomachs that can efficiently grind up and digest the tough fibers in grasses (like the horses and bovines did for example). The types of deer that do graze (like the axis deer) prefer to follow behind the coarse grass grazers so they can eat the new-sprouting, more tender shoots that spring up after the first "mowing".
Whitetail, like all deer, have incisor teeth (the cutting teeth in front) on only the bottom jaw, and a cartilage pad on the front of the upper jaw (They have molars on both upper and lower jaws.) This tooth pattern causes them to pull out the grass rather than to cut it like the specialized grazers do. The tender base of the grass is low in fiber, more nutritious and more digestible. So while whitetail can digest some of the grasses' most tender shoots, overall they would not thrive on grass alone.
What they eat is a huge variety of low fiber foods, they are "concentrate selectors". They eat tender shoots and leaves from all sorts of trees, vines, plants and bushes; fruits, vegetables, nuts (acorns are a real favorite), grains, mushrooms (a gourmet treat to deer) and mosses. Here in the South they eat Spanish moss (which is actually a bromeliad) and up in the cold climates in winter they eat frozen vegetation that has turned into a nutritious natural silage.
Many of the foods, even the good ones, that deer eat have poison in them, for example, tannin in acorns and oaks. But the foods are eaten in small amounts or are eaten when the plants are young so that they have a lower amount of toxins, and in some cases the toxins are balanced and neutralized by other vegetation so that they are not harmful. When tender shoots mature, they become tougher, have more fiber, have less nutrition and are more toxic, this is how the plants protect themselves, and how they discourage animals from eating them.
The deer's diet can turn into a starvation diet if food runs out in winter, and deer will then eat the undesirable mature forms of the previously delectable foods, and in fact will eat almost anything. At times a starving deer will have a belly filled with food that it cannot digest and will die with a full stomach.
I still believe that place that have more grasses and thick fibered plants arent allowing deer to truly eat...pennsylvania has lots of trees and such for deers less dense fibers that deers can digest.
the states that CWD is affecting have more grasses and thickly fibered veggitation. Im not an expert but I would rather know about a subjest before talking poop.
09-23-2008, 12:12 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 153
RE: why did michigan ban baiting
thats a very respected thoery. i would have to say you have a poin there. but man i cant wait till this figure it out and get it out of the herd. i hear it can do some real "herd" damage...lame joke i know but haha NE ways
09-23-2008, 12:15 PM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scranton, PA
Posts: 408
RE: why did michigan ban baiting
I will stop then good sir..I just dont like how some guys call themselves hunters when they are going to a RANCH to be shown where the deer are. This is NOT hunting no matter how much you say it is.
09-23-2008, 12:20 PM
#28
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Becker County, MN
Posts: 550
RE: why did michigan ban baiting
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
I stole this article from
http://www.suwanneeriverranch.com/WTinfo.htm this is my source so no plagerism
WHITETAIL DIET
The whitetail dietary flexibility stops at grass. They did not develop into grazers like some of the other deer species. They did not develop the special teeth or stomachs that can efficiently grind up and digest the tough fibers in grasses (like the horses and bovines did for example). The types of deer that do graze (like the axis deer) prefer to follow behind the coarse grass grazers so they can eat the new-sprouting, more tender shoots that spring up after the first "mowing".
Whitetail, like all deer, have incisor teeth (the cutting teeth in front) on only the bottom jaw, and a cartilage pad on the front of the upper jaw (They have molars on both upper and lower jaws.) This tooth pattern causes them to pull out the grass rather than to cut it like the specialized grazers do. The tender base of the grass is low in fiber, more nutritious and more digestible. So while whitetail can digest some of the grasses' most tender shoots, overall they would not thrive on grass alone.
What they eat is a huge variety of low fiber foods, they are "concentrate selectors". They eat tender shoots and leaves from all sorts of trees, vines, plants and bushes; fruits, vegetables, nuts (acorns are a real favorite), grains, mushrooms (a gourmet treat to deer) and mosses. Here in the South they eat Spanish moss (which is actually a bromeliad) and up in the cold climates in winter they eat frozen vegetation that has turned into a nutritious natural silage.
Many of the foods, even the good ones, that deer eat have poison in them, for example, tannin in acorns and oaks. But the foods are eaten in small amounts or are eaten when the plants are young so that they have a lower amount of toxins, and in some cases the toxins are balanced and neutralized by other vegetation so that they are not harmful. When tender shoots mature, they become tougher, have more fiber, have less nutrition and are more toxic, this is how the plants protect themselves, and how they discourage animals from eating them.
The deer's diet can turn into a starvation diet if food runs out in winter, and deer will then eat the undesirable mature forms of the previously delectable foods, and in fact will eat almost anything. At times a starving deer will have a belly filled with food that it cannot digest and will die with a full stomach.
I still believe that place that have more grasses and thick fibered plants arent allowing deer to truly eat...pennsylvania has lots of trees and such for deers less dense fibers that deers can digest.
the states that CWD is affecting have more grasses and thickly fibered veggitation. Im not an expert but I would rather know about a subjest before talking poop.
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
Well my friend if you would like to come to pennsylvania or just get pictures...you can see the deer population in PA is extremely health CWD happens when overpopulation meets under Vegitated areas colorado and montana are perfect examples not lots of vegitation compared to pennsylvania or tennesee or places like that. And im not saying that only southern deer but ive seen missouri deer with this problem. Ive never seen a deer in a well vegetated area with this disease..I might be mistaken but if im wrong ill admit my error.
[/blockquote]
can you really explain what you mean by under vegitated
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
Well my friend if you would like to come to pennsylvania or just get pictures...you can see the deer population in PA is extremely health CWD happens when overpopulation meets under Vegitated areas colorado and montana are perfect examples not lots of vegitation compared to pennsylvania or tennesee or places like that. And im not saying that only southern deer but ive seen missouri deer with this problem. Ive never seen a deer in a well vegetated area with this disease..I might be mistaken but if im wrong ill admit my error.
[/blockquote]
can you really explain what you mean by under vegitated
http://www.suwanneeriverranch.com/WTinfo.htm this is my source so no plagerism
WHITETAIL DIET
The whitetail dietary flexibility stops at grass. They did not develop into grazers like some of the other deer species. They did not develop the special teeth or stomachs that can efficiently grind up and digest the tough fibers in grasses (like the horses and bovines did for example). The types of deer that do graze (like the axis deer) prefer to follow behind the coarse grass grazers so they can eat the new-sprouting, more tender shoots that spring up after the first "mowing".
Whitetail, like all deer, have incisor teeth (the cutting teeth in front) on only the bottom jaw, and a cartilage pad on the front of the upper jaw (They have molars on both upper and lower jaws.) This tooth pattern causes them to pull out the grass rather than to cut it like the specialized grazers do. The tender base of the grass is low in fiber, more nutritious and more digestible. So while whitetail can digest some of the grasses' most tender shoots, overall they would not thrive on grass alone.
What they eat is a huge variety of low fiber foods, they are "concentrate selectors". They eat tender shoots and leaves from all sorts of trees, vines, plants and bushes; fruits, vegetables, nuts (acorns are a real favorite), grains, mushrooms (a gourmet treat to deer) and mosses. Here in the South they eat Spanish moss (which is actually a bromeliad) and up in the cold climates in winter they eat frozen vegetation that has turned into a nutritious natural silage.
Many of the foods, even the good ones, that deer eat have poison in them, for example, tannin in acorns and oaks. But the foods are eaten in small amounts or are eaten when the plants are young so that they have a lower amount of toxins, and in some cases the toxins are balanced and neutralized by other vegetation so that they are not harmful. When tender shoots mature, they become tougher, have more fiber, have less nutrition and are more toxic, this is how the plants protect themselves, and how they discourage animals from eating them.
The deer's diet can turn into a starvation diet if food runs out in winter, and deer will then eat the undesirable mature forms of the previously delectable foods, and in fact will eat almost anything. At times a starving deer will have a belly filled with food that it cannot digest and will die with a full stomach.
I still believe that place that have more grasses and thick fibered plants arent allowing deer to truly eat...pennsylvania has lots of trees and such for deers less dense fibers that deers can digest.
the states that CWD is affecting have more grasses and thickly fibered veggitation. Im not an expert but I would rather know about a subjest before talking poop.
09-23-2008, 12:34 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,465
RE: why did michigan ban baiting
ORIGINAL: nissan300ztt
I would rather know about a subjest before talking poop.
I would rather know about a subjest before talking poop.
hy·poc·ri·sy
/hɪˈpɒkrəsi/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hi-pok-ruh-see]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–noun, plural -sies.
1.
a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2.
a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3.
an act or instance of hypocrisy.[/align]