Upset with 82nd...
 

No, my limbs didn't fail.

I can't broadhead tune this thing for the life of me. I spent roughly six hours (off and on)with this thing today, and I can't figure it out.

Started out with the Limbdriver installed. It was the original model, without the vertical adjustment.

I started from scratch day before yesterday at work. I re-squared/paper tuned it before leaving work tuesday night. I sighted in/walkback tuned with fieldpoints yesterday evening.

Today I go to shoot broadheads and run into the same problem I had last week. I run out of adjustment before the POI gets close to the same. At 20 yards, I can cut vanes right and left, but step back to 30+ and I'm off again. 30 yards I'm hitting low and right. So, 1/16th of an inch at a time I adjust my rest left in hopes of getting the POI close. Negative, Ghost Rider. I get to a point where the broadhead and field point are maybe 2" apart, and they start moving to the left in even incriments. They stay 2 inches apart, but keep going left. [:@]I tried four different broadheads, all with similar results. With the Limbdriver I wasn't getting the vertical adjustment I needed anyway, so I did something drastic.

I installed a Whisker Biscuit.

Same crap, different rest. Can NOT get the broadheads and field points close enough.

So, I dida little digging on AT last night with the help of Bols, and he came across a thread on tuning Binary cams. So I read, then drove to work to use the EZ Press. I retarded my cams in hopes of getting things better in sync. I do all the twisting/un-twisting necessary to get everything in spec.I re-paper tune and drive home.

Saaame crap. [:@]At this point I was about ready to throw my bow into the street and drive over it. Maybe I was spoiled with my Allegiance. I had absolutely zero issue getting my broadheads and field points to hit the same.

So, lets recap what I tried today;

Two rests:
Limbdriver
Whisker Biscuit

Four broadheads:
G5 Striker
Shuttle-T
Slick Trick
Magnus Stinger

Took the bow to work and worked with my cam timing.

Paper tuned twice.

Walkback tuned once.

Finally I gave up and sighted in for my broadheads. I like shooting daily, but I guess at this point I'll settle for shooting my broadheads once or twice a day and calling it good. I'm driving tacks with JUST broadheads out to 40 (as thatsall the range I have access to here at home.)Anyone see anything I missed? I'm not messing with it any more until after I get back on the 22nd, but I'm open to suggestions. This damn thing is driving me nuts. I'm not nearly as confident with it as I should be.

/rant

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Suggestion? Buy back your beloved Allegiance!:D You could also check out a 60# 29" Jet Black Elite Z28, trade in your 82nd for it....if you no like, Ill find a home for it from there.:D

I had same problem with my vectrix....i got close but eventually resighted for BHs. In my case though, it was user lack of knowledge...not equipment...Im sure it can get there, but my shooting skills/tuning capabilities wouldnt do it for me this summer. Im talking the groups are maybe 2-3" off max, but still enough for me to resight.

I only practice with BHs from this point forward.... and Ive been fairly accurate....I broke two rage practice tips by stacking arrows. didnt damage shafts, just the heads got mangled when they collided with each other in foam.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

had the SAME trouble last season with my Highlander....i know my arrows are slightly stiff and think my string might need a little tweaking...

got a ultra rest this season and broadheads and FPs shoot together....i dont know what...same arrows...same BHs...weird...i tuned and retuned about a dozen times last year trying to fix it...

someone recommended for me to play with the tiller and limb bolts...cant remember exactly what it was though....

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

It is most likely an underspined arrow or bad broadhead alignment and if you are using still using FMJ's,that isn't the issue.


That is why I swear by 4" helical feathers for good broadhead flight.;)

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

The limb diver should give enough quidance to the arrow so it should be able to get it done,unless there was contact issues,which I am doubting.

Now going to get into the WB.:D

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

What arrows are you shooting, DL, DW, etc, tip weight also..... Do you have OT2, and can you run the spine to see how close it is??? I don't have it available right now, but could run some stuff in the morning when at home. But I don't even think SPINE should cause that much problem, sounds like an issue beyond that.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

You just might have a bad bow boy. Limbs, bent riser.... could be something that's untuneable. I have seen them at Len's. Not often, but it does happen. Are the limbs a match? Hell, who knows.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Didn't "Dubya" have a problems bow, that he ended up getting replaced or work done on???? Where's a Texan when we need one???? :D

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Forgot to include what I was shooting in the post;

82nd Airborne
60#, 28"
GT Pro 55/75 cut to 27.25"
Broadheads and field points are 100grns.
Both the nock end and insert end as well as the insert were squared with a G5 ASD.
I even went so far as to align my broadheads with my vanes.

[&:]

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I would start with the arrows,what kind of speed and what is the exact weight of the arrows.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Just off of the top of my head, that should be pretty good. Not 100% sure, but I'm thinking when I've run numbers on similar set-ups before a 55/75 was right on in the 60# medium draw area, not 100% sure on the tip, you may be able to vary tip weights and improve upon things in that department, but I'm still thinking there's something not right with the rest if you can't get the center-rest right regardless of what you do....

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

294fps was the last I saw through the chronograph.

372.3 grain arrows according to our scale.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I would think a .400 spine is a weak arrow out of that bow. I am willing to bet you need 340's. I have ontarget2 on my other computer. If someone doesn't check it for you first I will after I get home from work this evening.

I can't believe you didn't at least try shooting a stiffer arrow before going through all the trouble of switching rests and screwing with your cams [&:]

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I would try a heavier arrow, if that does not work through on some Rage and don"t worry about it.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Or condemning the bow when it may be an arrow issue.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I would move up to 75-95's.

82nd and Elite GT500 shoot an arrow a bit "harder" than mosst bows. I have .340 FMJ for my ROSS cut to 27. On the Elite I need .300 spine;)

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I would get the easton guide and bareshaft tune. This method is suppose to tell you if your arrows are underspined or overspined.

Jeff

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Weird. I had the same problem with my 06 Ally:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2959304&mpage=1&key=&#295930 4

I bought an 82nd and it was a breeze to tune. Paper, walk-back, broadhead all good. I loved the Ally but the 82nd is more accurate and 60 lbs is a dream.I am shooting 27.5" mods with 5575 GT Pro Huntersand a Trophy Taker.

TFOX ran the spine it was close tobeing weak - but OK - so I stayed with 5575's because I have more of them. I have some 7595's thatpaper tuned great so Irecommend going to a stiffer (.340) arrow.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I believe that you need a stiffer than typical shaft for the 82nd. I have my 82nd set at 64# and have the 27.5" mods on. I shoot the carbon express 250's and 350's. I figured out that I can barely shoot the 250's with a 100grn tip due to the fact that I have them cut to 25.75" long, so barely make it. With that said in paper tuning, I found the the 250s and 350s tune about the same, but I have the 350s cut to right around 26". I really believe that the 82nds shoot a stiffer spine better.
Good luck.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

According to OT2, your actually stiff. I wouldn't trust OT2 numbers on an 82nd though due to previousexperience.

I would first check the tiller on the bow and make sure you are even there. Then powder test the arrow to just make 100% sure it's getting clearance. Once this is done, I would find a 35/55 and a 75/95 shaft to shoot through it and see what they do.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Oh the Bowtech gang defending their beloved.[&:]

Anyway, I have you as stiff to right on with that spine, but my software is older and doesn't have the 82nd in it so I had to fudge the numbers. I doubt though that you would be underspined with what I'm seeing at 60#.

I honestly don't think it's the bow as much as you are trying to steer fixed blade broadheads at 294 fps. I would try some more aggressive fletching and see if that helps you out. You know your bow is tuned fine, you know it's not your rest, and you know it's not the broadhead. So it is time to look at the arrow. You can try a stiffer arrow, but I think if you get some fletching on there with more helical things will straighten out for you.

Good luck.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

For those who have not yet tickerd with new speed bow, throw out what the spine charts state[8D] The cams are just too hard IMO, and every bow is different.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Oh the antis piling on. [&:]

Anyway, yup like he said, it's time to look at the arrow but I'd be defending a beloved so I'll stop there.

Good luck.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

This is a FINE bow....and I thoroughly enjoy shooting it. I even won a little 3D shooting it this past Winter. Doe sit have some "issues"? Possible growing pains? I think it does. Are they able to be overcome? Yes.

Blasphemy? Hardly.;)

Great product.....but this AIN'T your daddy's bow.;) My feeling is it requires some extra attention. Worth it? The owners of this bow can answer that for themselves, independently. What the detractors and "pilers on" say goes in one ear and out the other.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I have witnessed the 82nd do some amazing things. I haven't seen it shot with BH yet, but I have seen it shot and group with 4 inch feathers and blazers alike. I know some of the Bowtechs do "like" a stiffer arrow. I have shot 300 spine out of my 101 and also 340. I like the stiffer flight better. My Commander was the same way.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Nor your kids bow.

I have zero issues with the 82nd. Ask anyone who shoots with/against me how it's shooting. ;) Layed some broadheads in the 12 ring as well. It's ready to go.

Do I need to post my stone? ;) :D Doug? Bueller, and buckeye's ;) and rybo's. ;) Oh and then there was Germ. [8D] :D

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Buckeye has a picture of me & my stone. He needs to post that up!

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Next year I am going to stick that 82nd up your ass:D

Ben I really do thing these harder cams need a stiffer arrow.

I should have never checked your math:D

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Oh don't get yourself in a tissy Rob. You know better than anyone that I'm anything but a Bowtech anti (even if I do currently shoot a Mathews;)).

You want to talk about piling on? Try creating yourself a new username and create a post stating you are having a problem with a Bowtech on this site. You know that the Bowtech faithful will do everything from try to help, to accusing you of mistreating bow, to calling you a liar for not posting pictures.

We've seen it time an again on here.

So, with that said I'm going to take some little jabs. Don't worry though, they're all in fun. If the Mathews crowd gets on their high horse I'll jab at them too. Same goes for Hoyt, Martin, Elite, or anyone else. I'm an equal opportunity ball buster.:D

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Instead of trying to settle the dispute over the greatest bow the world has ever seen, let's simply try to help Dan get it tuned properly so he's happy with it. We're not dealing with a novice here, but admittedly he ain't perfect either.

Dan, you've looked at everything there is, pretty much, except arrow spine. Did you try a 125 grain broadhead? Maybe crank the limb bolts up 1/2 turn....The only thing I see in your original post that you didn't really address was spine.

I do remember something about Dubbya having similar issues, though I don't recall precisely what those were.....I know he got it rectified, but for the life of me I can't remember what he had to do.....If it were me, I would mess with arrow spine, and if that doesn't do it......Start completely over from scratch. Make sure the bow is in spec....Tiller is right, brace height, ATA....all that good stuff. Oh, maybe also try a bigger fletching.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

How big's the 12 ring on a NC deer or turkey, Rob?

"I wouldn't know" will suffice.:D

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Dubbya sent his back to bowtech if I recall. Nobody beat me up, how much cam lean does she have?

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Not really knowing what the inside joke here is, I can only assume it's a parable discussing that people that don't own, nor ever have owned, a bowtech don't know what they're talking about.

To that I say you're right. I haven't. But I have shot one, in fact I've shot all the 2008 Bowtech lineup. And I tune bows every day. So, how big is the 12 ring on a Missouri deer or turkey?

"I wouldn't know" will most certainly suffice.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I think it has to do with Rob missing a turkey down there this spring.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

WTF????....lol:D

LOL...yeah....and a deer in '06[8D]

Don't worry MO....I wasn't insulting you;)

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Dan I had all kinds of problems while I was shooting the GT two years ago doing simular things you are describing, Am I saying they are bad no but when I switched over to CX 350's I have never had another issue. I am shooting the 101st set at 65# at 28 1/2 and am getting 300fps on the dot and I can watch my CX 350's spiral with blazer vanes and broadheads. I have shot a two blade head and a 3 and 4 blade muzzy a 100 grain thunderhead and my grimrippers and all hit the same as a feildpoint. Like stated above I think you have an arrow issue. Is there a shop where you can go down there and shoot a bunch of different arrows?? Walt

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Hey Wash....

That thread you guys came across. That wouldn't happened to have been that of Mr. Dave Nowlin, would it? Shoot that guy a PM. Is a like a Bowtech Tuning god. He talk you through it on the phone. Good luck!

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

I'm thinking whatever the problem is, it's either a CONTACT problem, or the arrows. OT2 does shot that set-up to be STIFF, but I'll agree with you more intelligent guys on the thinking that it may be wrong. Dan, "Humor us," and go get a few Beman or CX arrows done up and see if the problem still exists, powder test your arrows to make sure you're not getting contact, then let's see where we are. Also not overguessing, how tall are you??? There isn't any chance you could be "over-extended" on this bow is there???? Do these 82nd's tend to draw a touch long by any chance????

The other thing I wondered about was putting a 125 gr tip on the arrow and seeing if that made any change as his FOC IS a little LOW, 9% range.

Just throwing arrows on OT2, a CX 250 w/ a 125 should spine real close, while also UPPING The FOC to 12.5%, or and Easton ACC-HS in 2-49 hits PERFECT with and FOC in the 12.4% range at 28" with a 125 tip. I'm thinking with a bow with so much "ooomph" behind it you'd definitely want some extra forward weight, but I could be wrong. Again, I'm still on the low side of the learning curve, but the more I tinker, the more I learn also.

I'll be out all weekend, so come Sunday night, I'll see what I've learned....

Good Luck Dan!!!!!

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

You guys are right, through my frustration I didn't even consider my arrows. I assumed, being in the low to middle of the 55/75 range I would be stiff, rather than weak. I didn't take into account the cam design of this bow. With that being said, I'll see what I can do about coming up with some differen't arrows.

I did not have any 125 grain field points or broadheads here at home to try out, either. With all the money I've put into this upcoming trip, I'm about broke so that portion of the experiment may have to wait. I might have one laying around somewhere that I'll try to dig up, but we'll see.

I don't know, as much as I enjoy the technical aspect of archery, this is almost too much of a headache. Y'all know I've praised this bow since I bought it. Its hands down one of the most accurate bows I've shot. Because of that, the issues I'm having now are extremely frustrating for me. As Mobow mentioned, I'm not the novice to tuning that I was two years ago, but I'm definitely not a guru here, hence my posting. I appreciate all the help, guys.

I work until eight tonight, but I'll try and snag a couple different range arrows we have at work (CX 250's and 350's.). I'll try and shoot them before work tomorrow to see what happens.

RE: Upset with 82nd...
 

Before changing arrows, why not try turning down the draw weight to, say, 56 and see what happens. If the arrows are shooting weak that may clear up the problem right there. No real reason the bow has to be at max DW is there?