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RE: stupidest regs
BUT I will give graydawg some slack that a "percieved" B:D ratio can really look skewed when youobserve fawns and count them as "does". By simple math it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE fora deer herd to ever get to much greater than 1:4 over a period of time. Hunter "perception" can see it differently....and again I used to as well. |
RE: stupidest regs
I did find one scenario that balances out to a 6:1 B/D ratio.
You have to kill 15% of your does in hunting season and assume that only half the number of does get bred and produce only one fawn each if they do. Have a 5% doe mortality outside of that. Kill 85% of your bucks in hunting season Have a 15% buck mortality Use a 20% doe fawn mortality and a 30% buck fawn mortality. That will give you a 6:1 B:D ratio heading into hunting season and keep your overall deer pops steady. |
RE: stupidest regs
Hell I could come up with a scenario that wipes bucks out completely, Ryan!....lol
You have to kill 15% of your does in hunting season and assume that only half the number of does get bred and produce only one fawn each if they do. Have a 5% doe mortality outside of that. Kill 85% of your bucks in hunting season Have a 15% buck mortality Use a 20% doe fawn mortality and a 30% buck fawn mortality. No offense....but these totally off the wall numbers do nothing but perpetuate the mindset some people have regarding these issues. THEY are far-fetched....and these numbers are .........hell they're just so unrealsitic it's crazy. Hell I just did the math,......and your scenario has each buck SUCCESSFULLYbreeding over 19 does....EACH! |
RE: stupidest regs
Exactly my point. To come up with the off the wall B:D numbers you have to REALLY enter in some bizarre inputs that aren't very realistic. I don't think anyone here can say thier herd is subjected to the conditions I put forth.
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RE: stupidest regs
Exactly my point. To come up with the off the wall B:D numbers you have to REALLY enter in some bizarre inputs that aren't very realistic. I don't think anyone here can say thier herd is subjected to the conditions I put forth. |
RE: stupidest regs
Now, here aremy3 questions to you (I'm dying to hear your response):
- How many days, in the last 6 years, have you spent hunting Whitetail Deer in MA? - How many days, in the last 6 years, have you spent scouting Whitetail Deer in MA? - How many deer have you ever legally harvested in MA? 1. Never hunted or scouted deer inMA. 2. See No. 1 3. See No. 1 ------------------------------------------ So you've never, hunted, scouted or ever legally taken a deer in MA and you sit there and try to tell me the state of our herd? My numbers come from a published hardcopy report that I receive from the Mass DF&W. I'm sorry that you don't have a copy, mine is sitting at home & I was looking at it last night and typing verbatim from the published numbers. As for not seeing all the bucks- I'll give you that. But I don't think anyone can claim that all the does are being seen either. These aren't numbers that I'm extrapolating from what's showing up on my trailCam. These are numbers that are coming from the MAss. DF&W deer surveys conducted throughout the state. I find it extremely narrow-minded for someone who hasn't spent MINUTE ONE in the MA bush- to come on here and attempt to refute deer herd numbers that are published by the Mass. DF&W! Let me ask you just one more question- if bucks are so "elusive" compared to does, as you would have everyone believe, then why on earth are there twice as many bucks being harvested in MA than there are does? The numbers don't lie. The 2006 harvest data shows this clearly. Explain that. The point of my entire submission is the following: Hunters in MA should be on the "Earn a Buck" program similiar to that of Wisconsin. Every hunter should be required to whack a doe before they can take a buck. This in turn will promote a better buck;doe ratio, which will in turn create more competition for the bucks to breed to the fewer does that are left. This will create a healthier herd over the long term as only the dominant, superior bucks will earn the right to breed over a limited number of does. The way it is now- there is zero competition for bucks to breed to does. We have so many does, bucks don't need to move much at all in order to finda doecoming into estrous. We have bucks in the middle of the pre-rut that don't respond to horns or grunts as they don't care to spend their time & energy fighting another buck over a piece of turf- they simply move on as they know they will find more does over the next saddle or across the next ravine. As a result- bucks who SHOULDN'T be breeding are breeding does and helping in the creation of a less than optimal herd. Spend some time reading up on the MA deer herd problems beforeyou attempt to refute numbers published by our own state DF&W. I'm done. Rob |
RE: stupidest regs
Ive never liked the Mn reg that says your bow needs to be cased durring transit or unstrung,well dont mind the unstrung when I hunt recurve.......I have never seen anyone shoot a bow out of a p/u or car before let alone a recurve/longbow...
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RE: stupidest regs
So you've never, hunted, scouted or ever legally taken a deer in MA and you sit there and try to tell me the state of our herd? My numbers come from a published hardcopy report that I receive from the Mass DF&W. As for not seeing all the bucks- I'll give you that. But I don't think anyone can claim that all the does are being seen either. I find it extremely narrow-minded for someone who hasn't spent MINUTE ONE in the MA bush- to come on here and attempt to refute deer herd numbers that are published by the Mass. DF&W! Let me ask you just one more question- if bucks are so "elusive" compared to does, as you would have everyone believe, then why on earth are there twice as many bucks being harvested in MA than there are does? The numbers don't lie. The 2006 harvest data shows this clearly. Explain that. Just because YOU aren't seeing them....and think the ratio is that far off.....doesn't mean everyone isn't finding them.;) and if we use those numbers to figure a buck:doe ratio (harvest numbers...and extrapolate)......it's not really gonna get any better for your assertion now, is it;)? The point of my entire submission is the following: Hunters in MA should be on the "Earn a Buck" program similiar to that of Wisconsin. Every hunter should be required to whack a doe before they can take a buck. This in turn will promote a better buck;doe ratio, which will in turn create more competition for the bucks to breed to the fewer does that are left. This will create a healthier herd over the long term as only the dominant, superior bucks will earn the right to breed over a limited number of does. The way it is now- there is zero competition for bucks to breed to does. We have so many does, bucks don't need to move much at all in order to finda doecoming into estrous. We have bucks in the middle of the pre-rut that don't respond to horns or grunts as they don't care to spend their time & energy fighting another buck over a piece of turf- they simply move on as they know they will find more does over the next saddle or across the next ravine. As a result- bucks who SHOULDN'T be breeding are breeding does and helping in the creation of a less than optimal herd. Spend some time reading up on the MA deer herd problems before to attempt to refute numbers published by our own state DF&W. |
RE: stupidest regs
Jeff,
Things are starting to make sense now- I see that you have two whole years of Bowhunting under your belt.......... you must know everything at this point- especially about deer herds in states you've never stepped foot in! I never said that the 8;1 doe to buck ratio was going to be "sustained", I simply stated that is where we find ourselves today (well, at least after the 2006 data was released. 2007 data is soon to be released, so we'll see what the delta is). In short- I'll ask that you do me a favor, please keep feeding the pastor's family with your harvested venison. But PLEASE, PLEASE, PUH-LEESE- stop announcing to all of us here on HNI what you DON'T KNOW about the Mass. deer herd. You simply don't know what you don't know- and that's a very dangerous place to be, especially given your status of Contributing Author here on HNI. I'm done trying to discuss something with someone who knows nothing about the specifics of the topic at hand. Rob |
RE: stupidest regs
Sunday hunting ban in any state. Stupid.
Noon cutoff for spring turkey in any state. Stupid. In Ohio, ok, I know it would be hard to write regulations for 3 counties, but it really needs to be done. I feel so bad for the raccoon hunters. Season comes in November 10th. The problem? There are 3 counties in Ohio that are on the leeward side of Lake Erie with the usual western/northwestern fall wind. What this means is from about mid to late November onward, those 3 counties are subject to lake effect snow. Lake effect snow usually is measured in feet and not inches. Once it hits, the coons hole up in a tree somewhere and hunting season is done unless we have a warm spell. That means the coon hunters have about 1-2 weeks of season. I am not a coon hunter, but I really feel for them. Stupid! I'm sure there are more, but those are the highlights. |
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