http://www.mossback.com/


Here is the elk in question. Obviously these mossback guys feel like they have him in the bag already as he's all over there website.


Let's get it straight so everyone can see what I'm talking about:

This according to everything I've heard is a wild elk on public land.....so, is it "fair chase"??

Technically, how could anyone say no? I said to "improve fair chase".

From what I've gathered from some Utah boys, and it seems very reasonable,this ol' boy has a whole army of guides/outfitters camped out on him every day...just waiting for the season to start.

Again, is this fair chase??? We could get into a whole 'nother descussion (which used to go dozens of pages around here regarding the use of guides and stuff...not that I'm personally against them).

Still it would be hard to say this is not "fair chase"

All that being said, just does not seem very sporting. I'd personally like to see him break half his antlers off, but I doubt it. However that would probably only solve the problem until next year. Probably the best thing that could happen would be for the state of Utah to dart and transplant him to anther wilderness area.

Is it fair chase??Technically yes. Is it sporting??? You decide. I say no.

I only read the initial post but here is my response to that only -

Fencing animals is anti-hunting

www.m-w.com

anti means opposed to, opposite to, and fencing takes away a big part of what hunting is. WHY are the fences there? WHY are the animals stocked/bred/fed like they are ?

we all know the reason GMAT - to take much of the "hunt" out of hunting, to make the kill almost guaranteed or in most cases for sure guaranteed, to remove everything that is pre-hunting that you should be doing with your son, to make the kill bigger horns, more exotic ..... especially the small fenced places that are shoot and kills.


if you want to teach your son that, thats your choice and animals are here for us to use. take him there, let him kill an animal, eat it ..... but there is no hunting there, you've taught him NOTHING about hunting as a sport, as a heritage.

instead what you've taught him is that money and high fences can bypass hard work and the time/effort that really is suppose to go into hunting.


you can argue you want him to become interested in hunting more, the have success blah blah blah all you want to, but bottom line, you can't shortcut hunting, you can't take most of what hunting is OUT and still call it hunting.

[]

this attitude really gets me - the whole "you decide" thing

it aint about personal decisions and personal choice - its not. its about what is and isn't hunting, because you will NEVER separate fenced shooting and hunting in the eyes of non-hunters - EVER

hey if people want to dog fight, they decide, right?
hey, if people want to beat their wives, their choice, right?
child porn? awe if they want to - right?

we draw lines in life EVERY DAY on what is and isn't right and your obligated to do that as a person, as a US citizen, even as a Christian.

ya'll stand up for (against) many many things in life, but your passion of hunting you'll stand aside and let it be bastardized into a horn porn blood sport ?



Animal Rights Activists are right you know - a lot of people, more than I ever imagined, are just in it for the kill []

The argument can be made (and sometimes IS) that the fence is there to protect the investor's investment from poachers (read: anti-hunting).

So people can charge money to other people who find them desireable?

Illegal = Bad analogy.

Illegal = Bad analogy.

Illegal = Bad analogy

And the line greys from person to person (i.e. HF, Baiting, Baiting certain animals, etc...). The law, doesn't.

High fence hunting isn't the sole cause of this.

Between you and I....here's where we find common ground. My talks would not be about the Red Sox or the latest Bruce Willis movie. Give me a "little"credit.

god help me my head hurts i thought the girls i went to high school with where bad.
come on guys your shooting a dead deer to death.

bingo why is it ok to bait a deer with corn cemeere deer. and not do so with in a 5000 acre fenced area.
In a 5000 acre area not sure how the fence would matter.
I would not hunt where i was sitting on a feeder waiting for it to go off. with a cup of hot choclate and a TV.
i keep coming back to the king of the hill eps. where hank takes bobby to a fence opt. and they leave when they figure it is not hunting.

Now i would hunt a place where they had 5000 acres used a fence to do the best they can to keep deer with good genetics in and deer with bad genetics out.



So people can charge money to other people who find them desireable?

Those fences are there to insure that the person "hunting" has a stacked decked to shoot something. Fences are not there to protect against poaching - who're you trying to kid ? If they REALLY were, make them 6' - the deer can jump that, poachers still stay out - .... but no, they're made escape proof and for a reason.


that's fine, go shoot a angus bull or a quarter horse for all I care - do NOT call it hunting, because it isn't

canned hunting is illegal - good analogy because the two are hard to argue/distinguish (fenced hunting vs small fenced are hunting)



whatever people want to do, right ?



laws change - abortion is legal but very few people think its right. prostitution is legal, drug use is legal, you can go across the globe and find things that are legal that will make you PUKE -

what is good, and right, ethical and moral ... those things have solid bases



its becoming that way FAST - its all a part of horn porn and the selfishness to kill the biggest horns at any cost



then why would you even consider it ?




bigtim6656 its one of the biggest issues that the heritage of hunting has ever faced.




if it doesn't matter - take down the fence



why would genetics matter ? why a fenced area ?


ahhhhhhh so you can be more guaranteed to kill a big racked buck - horn porn, selfish "look at the big rack I killed" kinda thing huh ?

the world's biggest bucks from Jordan to Zaft to Johnson to the Hole in the Horn and MN Monarch .... they were pretty good genetics and didn't have fences ...




and it aint hunting - ever

My take is that if you have doubts about it I dont think you should do it. Clearly your having doubts because this post. What eveyone has said in this post is thier opinion. We can give you our opinion but it will be you that will have to make the choice. This is my opinion, I dont think it will make as good of a hunting story as oppsed to a real hunt. For example, "Thats a nice deer you got there" "Ya got him in one of those high fence hunting areas, only place I can get a real deer."

Just my own $.02

who are you to say what is moral right ethical or good. heck one day having black slaves was the right thing moral and ok. but not know.
Morals and wether or not something is ethical is someone opionon.
i have issues of high fence hunting. but i am not going to look down on someone doing it.

laws change - abortion is legal but very few people think its right. prostitution is legal, drug use is legal, you can go across the globe and find things that are legal that will make you PUKE -

what is good, and right, ethical and moral ... those things have solid bases