Big Buck Barometer
 

4 guys in camo, all sitting around the OUIJA board. "Oh Mighty OUIJA - Hallowed Be Thy Name - Show Us The Way."


B-O-O-N-E-R

Stupid, right?

But is that really any different than a guy sitting behind the mouse, clicking until he has carpal tunnel, just dreaming up huge numbers and telling his homeboys that he's holding out for a 170?

We all do it. Our little hearts flutter with whims of whopper whitetails. We assign numbers and set limits, as if we know the code.

So how do you do it? How do you know what makes a "big" deer for your area?

Some guys glass. Some pick sheds. Some run spotlights. Some run lines of cameras. Some have no fugging idea, and go in blind.


Seriously?

Let's talk about big bucks. "Mature" bucks. Are they really there?

15 years of bowhunting in the Archery Mecca that is Southwestern Pennsylvania and Northern West Virginia, and I don't even know if I've ever even seen one.

"The big boys are there, you just have to find 'em." I had a guy tell me this last year. Isnapped my neckaround, looking for some kind of verification of this bold proclaimation and (amazingly)the biggest buck on his wall might go 120 on a good day, with a liberal scorekeeper. Apparently he's not "finding 'em" either. Two months later, dudeforks out $3200 for a week in the Golden Triangle, and comes home with a 180. Whaddya know. He found one out there. In 4 days, he accomplished what he couldn't accomplish in 20 years on his home turf. Did he really become that much of a better hunter in 4 days? Pot luck?

Are they really there? If these mysterious, reclusive, enormousdeer do, indeed exist everywhere- then shouldn'twe allbe seeing them? Or at least signs of them?
[ul][*]We put cameras out - Dink City. Maybe acouple solid2.5's to give you some patheticglimmer ofhope.[*]We run spotlights all summer/falland see some nice deer, but nothing outside the bounds of normalcy. Thousands of deer every year. Thousands. No joke.[*]8-12 dayshoofing it in the woodseach spring,picking sheds - all Dinks. Dink. Dink. Dink.[*]The "big boys"don't really show up at the local big buck contest. Apparently they're avoiding everyone else, too.[*]Nobody ever seems to get one of these deer that everyone seems to insist "are out there."[*]No booner skulls.If you find anything that would scare150, you get your picture taken with it.[*]Lots of whale's tales, butas far as substantiated evidence goes, it's severely lacking. [/ul]So, if these deer do, indeed exist - shouldn't they drop their antlers? If they're dying of old age, shouldn't somebody find them? Maybe they bury their sheds to avoid detection. Maybe the does cremate the carcasses.

I mean, they are there, right? Or are they?



I have a theory. Color me stupid, because maybe I'm way off base here - but maybe, just maybe,I'm right. But it goes something like this:
[ul][*]If you're seeing big deer and finding big sheds - you're in an area with lots of big deer, and you should be able to get one.[*]If you're NOT seeing anybig deer, and you're looking hard, but stillNOT finding any good sheds - you're simply hunting an area where there justAREN'T any big deer, and you're wasting your life away trying.[/ul]Maybe "Any" isa bit strong... But you get the point.


Pennsylvania is Booner Country.


So seriously - what makes a big buck for YOUR area?

Now, I'm not asking for the biggest buck in your county. Just wondering what class of deer that you think you have a very realistic chance of harvesting. Not the statistical anomaly. The average top-end deer.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I would have to say 110-125 up in Northwest Pennsylvania Erie County. That is about the biggest i have ever seen in my years of hunting.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Anything over 125-130" taken with a bow turns some heads around here. There are much bigger deer than that here, but thats what most here call a big buck.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Southern New Jersey is deffinately lacking in the big deer. Although there have been sightings of 140+onch bucks they are jsut to smart for hunters around here i guess. once in a blue moon you will see someone come up with a nice one

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

LOL:D

Not according to "some". I'm told, every year, of the ones that I'm just "not seeing".

ANY buck over 100". I've hunted 3 seasons and seen exactly TWO. I have one more (that MIGHT go 100") on game cam.

THIS is the result of TWO YEARS of shed hunting. Yet....they're "out there".....lol

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

In my home area if you passed on a 100 inch buck you would be a fool! The best hunter I have ever known and I have known some very good one's has killed one buck in a life time of hunting that exceeds 125 inches.He is deceased,he died in a vehicle accident while hunting elk out in Idaho a couple of years ago.This man hunted and scouted in excess of 100 days a year,had a life time of great spots accumulated in our area,was as knowledgeable and shrewed a hunter as I have ever known.In addition to these hunting characteristics he was big and raw boned tough.The point of all this is if this guy couldn't get it done nobody was or is getting it done in our area.He was routinely killing 110 to 115 inch deer.
I am 50 years old (recently turned)hunt very hard and spend a decent amount of time at it,I have seen one buck that would make Pope and Young in my life and that was early in the morning while driving.
We have had antler restrictions for two years,time will tell if that changes the circumstances.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

For my area in NC, 25 miles North of Jeff, any deer over 100" is a BIG deer. People can say what they want, about location not being a factor but I've put in 18 years thus far and the biggest I've seen no the hoofis the one on my wall @ 112". I've hunted the prime locations with acres upon acres of soy beans and corn, giant thickets to bed in, in other words the kind of place you dream of and still not seen anything that would touch P&Y. The ONLY deer that was killed in my area that scored P&Y last year, in which I've posted pics, is rumored to have been an old photo of the same guy with an OHIO deer.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I think by my personal experiences and trail camera images my best chance score wise would be around 125- 140. I had three 140 plus on one of my trail cameras last year but just couldn't close the deal on them. Because of them I passed on many mid to high 130's last year. There is one buck that I had missed last year that probably would of only score in the mid 120's, but he had a third main beam and that was the only reason that I took a shot at him. (missed at 18 yds[:@]) He was a solid 3.5 so he should be extra nice this year. Quick, I do believe they are out there and just because youhaven't seen them doesn't mean that someone else hasn't seen them. I know if I came across a "BOONER" either finding his sheds or seeing in person, I wouldn't tell a soul around my parts. I love bow hunting and I love being out in the woods and that is what gets me excited for the upcoming year. Not wondering if I will get a booner or not. That's just icing on the cake.;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I live/hunt north central WV. I voted 110-125, although it might be closer to the 95-110. The biggest buck that I have seen hunting was the buck I killed, a 9 that would score mid-90s. Usually thereare a couple a year killed in my area with a rifle that would go 110-125or so, but usually don't hear of anything killed of that caliber with a bow. My dad back 20 years or so killed a buck that would go mid-150s with a rifle.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

A big deer, even relatively speaking for a given region, may be a statistical anomaly in a particular area. So you may have to do everything right and still get really lucky to kill a deer that MOST would consider big.

Also, I believe you have to define "area". A "big" buck may indeed only set foot on the particular area you hunt once in a coon's age (just traveling thru perhaps). Still, there may be a "big" buck regularly hanging around the "area" in which you live (let's say county, for instance). Just because there may be a few big bucks in your "area" doesn't mean one will show up in your hunting "area"

Another thing to consider is that if you measureyour hunting by the end result as opposed to the total experience, you may experience enough disappointmentto consider your time afield "wasted".Hope few, if any, use that barometer.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

What was the question again?

My realistic upper end buck is 130” class. I have seen a few pushing the 150” mark, but they are very few and seen only on locked up lands. But I also contend with the “X” factor that some REAL monsters come from the one county I hunt, although I have personally never seen a living deer over 160”, 2 were shot relatively close to me that scared the 200” mark. Those were statistical anomalies. But they did exist.

The only way I get a ball park estimate of the top end bucks in my areas is with a spotlight. Riding around before dark, doesn’t cut it. You may see one or 2 all summer (on the locked up land) that show their faces while the sun is still shining. But to really see what’s around, you need to spot after dark. And then, you need to time it right, because after a short while, they get shy of going near any field within beam reach. Spotting is a very popular past time. Hopefully gas prices will knock it down some.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

A 150" buck is big for around here but not necessarily huge. The biggest I have ever seen from stand would have gone somewhere around 160"-165" huge perfectly typical 10 pointer. Old son-of-a-gun too. You know how old bucks get those squinty eyes? Well his were barely open, LOL.

My dad saw one buck around here bigger. A monster typical 12 that he guestimated at 180". He would know. He killed a 186 3/8" non-typical on public land in 1985. Biggest deer I have ever seen... Him too for that matter.

In any given season I consider myself lucky to take a P&Y buck. I see a couple every year and usually at least one whopper, but seeing, getting a shot opportunity at, and harvesting are leaps and bounds apart;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

There is truth to this statement. Google "record book bucks of Pennsylvania, NC, SC, NY etc" and see what you come up with. They may not be as common as in other places but there are bucks scoring 160+ being taken from these places.

I guess you just have to find them. While I've hunted in the midwest my entire life, it took me over 18 seasons before I saw my first mature buck, onethat would score over 135. It wasn't until I started studying them and actually hunting for them before I started seeing them.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

A buck from 100-125" is very common here in south east Va. On the places I hunt and the surrounding areas several in 135-165" class are killed every year. Anything above the 165" class is not as common. I would say there maybe 2 or 3 170+ killed in this area which is 25 mile radius a yr.

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RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Hey Fran....

If you're using the pool of fellow students.....it's possible to find a date to the spring dance.....if you're a cadet at the Citadel.;)

Thats what we're looking for.

VA....you've been bowhunting how long? I ask this for refererece, ONLY. What's your biggest bow buck (inches)? I consider you to be an accomplished hunter in your woods.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

i have a very good chance of killing a 125-140". anything is possible, weve seen some over 160 on all the farms

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I strongly disagree. Take yourself a field trip to Northern West Virginia and try to tag a 110+" buck, while squared-off against the rallying mobs of West Virginians. It's do-able, but it mightcost you5 yearsof your life and 10,000 gallons of gas.

Hell, before the antler restrictions, it would've been a lifetime achievement to top 110" here in SW PA.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I have seen first hand in my part of the state bucks that are 3.5 years old and 135"+, but as Rybo said many of these are on locked up land that is unavailable to anyone and most turn into ghosts once they are hard horned. I do not see many deer that I would estimate as older than 3.5. If you see one it's like seeing a shooting star. You pay attention and make a mental note of it.

So, while those deer are present hunting them is another story. Not to mention that the ones that aren't poached upon reaching 3.5 become nearly strictly nocturnal so the only realistic chance is to set up on a funnel and hope a hot doe will bring one out of hiding in a love crazed frenzy. It happens, but it's like winning the lottery, right place, right time, and a lot of luck even if you have stacked the odds in your favor.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

That's the point.

I'm just saying that we all should temper our expectations according to what we see, not what's listed in the record books.

Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for a magnanimous letdown.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I haven't actually seen this deer, but, based on his rub last winter, I'd like to, becauseI have a feeling it would qualify...
(hand is my girfriend's)



It's on my friend's land where I sometimes hunt.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

If from the beginningto this day I only went by what my buddies shot I would be laying down dinks.

I wanted bigger bucks... So, I worked hard and located them.... Watched and studied them.... Then started shooting them.

I have said it a hundred times... I live 15 minutes from the PA border.... If I canfind them here..... They can befound there.
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RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

This sounds like gawking at Playboy all day......and then going to a local women's softball tournament.....and expecting to find Jenny Finch pitching for Bill's Auto Parts.

You're more likely to find Rosie's twin.;)

Scott:

I believe that 100%. But it's not just what your buddies are killing. It's what your hunting lands hold.

Your record speaks volumes about what you're doing....and how you're doing it. Your point is valid, though. I don't have any friends around me that hold out for even what "I" have shot....which isn't anything many woud give a second look.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

To think that all areas are equal and that everyone should hold out for 160" deer is obviously, to anyone one that can be objective for one minute, a stupid assumption.

But as far as relativity for a particular area goes...........it is also some combination of naivete, ignorance, stupidity, or arrogance for someone to think that they areseeing the best deer in their area on a regular basis. I am not referring tojustone deer either, butthe top 5-10% of what your area offers.

If you are not occasionally (ocasionally defined as once every 3-5 years) finding sheds or dead carcasses of deer considerably larger than you regularly see, then you aren't looking hard enough or you are not looking in the right places.


If you are in fact ALWAYS (always as defined sometime during the season) seeing the largest deer your area has to offer each year, then your deer are really, really stupid.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

We have guards stationed at the border and any buck over 100” that tries to enter from Ohio gets shot. Same as any buck that hits 100” in the rest of the state gets shot. We don’t take too kindly that kind ‘round here. ;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I think you are absolutely right. In the end it comes down to priorities, situation andcircumstance. I could hunt areas with bigger bucks than my farm, but I have other priorities that limit the time I can spend there (staying employed and trying to keep from becoming divorced are the top 2;)). I'm not complaining. I just think it comes down to what are you willing/able to do to make it happen.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Or....they just aren't there. You can not say, (sans some combination of naivete, ignorance, stupidity) otherwise, with any sense of accuracy. It's an opinion....based on a "whim".

See above.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

In Medina County, Ohio, most "big" bucks are in the 130"-140" range.Their are bucks that would hit 150, 160 and maybe 170 in a few areas around the county. I know of a two 23 points, a19 point,a 12point and a few other that would go at least 160" (the 12 point and the 19 point could probably hit 170). None of these guys had them measured or entered into any buck contests though, and two were shot by kids. A few were in the local paper (Medina County Gazette). Theirare no"high" fencedareas and spotlighting is highly illegal (and the game warden is strict).I personally saw two separate deer a total of three times that were over 130, one might be a little over 140 (nighttime video). My trail cameras picked up roughly 7 deer over 115" last year, and somewhere around 13 deer in the last six years over that mark with the biggest being around 160-170.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I am defining "they" as the the biggest 5-10% of what a particular area holds. That could be a 90" or a 150".


[blockquote]
I stand by this statement. Opinion? Yes Whim? Hardly. [/blockquote]

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Scott - I'd LOVE to agree with you here, but I can't. There's a very distinct reasonwhy you stay on the west side of the PA/OHline. We both know that there's a finite limit to how much one person can "watch" or "study" deer -and no matter what - it isn't gonna make 'em grow any bigger. I could walk the PA gamelands until my feet bled, and I'd never kill a 150" deer. I could drag Cox's army through there on a shed hunt, and I'd never find a 70" shed. It's just not gonna happen. You just can't find a deer that isn't there. It's like Polar Bear hunting in Florida.

I hunted Ohio this year. In 3 days in the stand, my buddy shot the biggest buck of his life. I spent 5 days on standand killed a buck that would've torn the antlers off of the one I killed in PA, and passed up about 5 more just like it. 5 days, and I saw more quality deer over that span than I'd seen in hundreds of stand-hours in PA, hunting some of the best land that my home county has to offer. Sure, we scouted fast and dialed-in on some good activity - but I do the same thing at home every year. It just doesn't yield the same results.

I spot/glass literally thousands of PA deer all over Fayette, Greene, Washington and Westmoreland Countiesevery year. Thousands. I can say without hesitation that it's everything a guy can do to kill a 130-class whitetail here.

It's easy to sit back and say "you're not trying hard enough" or "you're not looking in the right places," but there comes a point where you are legitimately and routinely shooting the biggest deer around, and you have to accept that you're not hunting in Pike County.Or just realize that you're waiting for a statistical anomaly that might only come along once-in-a-lifetime. If ever.

A 165" buck goes down inElk County, PA or Preston County, WV - it's headline news. The same deer eats a bullet in Iowa, nobody notices. It's just that simple.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I had to read that a few times, jack. "Really, really stupid"? I get your point.....but I'm not sure I'd go that far (just my personal opinion).Your claimdoesn't give the hunter (hunting a particular animal) much credit.

In general, though....I see your point.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

This is a great post!!

Sure, it's "possible" that the land you're hunting holds P&Y deer but we all know some areas hold FAR more than others. So yeah, it can be said "just hold out for a booner" or "go find the booners" but to what extent and time does one need to do this in an area that simply doesn't hold that caliber deer? I dare say that the folks who have no problem "holding out for a booner" would become quite disenchanted and disheartened with this "game plan" if they hunted in the areas where those deer just aren't found.

I cantell you alltomorrow that I'm going to "hold off" shooting a buck until it's at least a 140in deer KNOWING full well I'll probably see one that bigwithin a year or two. I don't think I'd make that same statement if I knew it would take me 20 years before I even saw one much less had a chance to kill one!

I can honestly say that in all the years I've hunted exclusively here in Illinois (over 20 years) I've seen at least oneP&Y (125in or bigger) deer while hunting. They many not have all been in range or even during the bow season (some sighting happened during the gun seasons) but I've seen big deer every year for as long as I can remember. And this isn't even in the "choice" areas of Illinois. How anyone can hunt here in Illinois and NOT see at least one deer that size in that many years is either doing something extremely wrong or is sleeping in their stand.........

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

One thing i think we can agree on is that unless we go and hunt with one another, we don't "know" what its like in different areas. Just because a guy is seeing 150+ bucks every day doesn't mean the deer are stupid, maybe hes glassing them from 1/4 mile away in a field. We just simply don't know unless we experience it first hand.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Well, if I had just went by what I saw for the first 18 years of hunting, I'd still be shooting smaller bucks. By looking at the record books and seeing that they do exist would hopefully cause one to change his tactics and start hunting differently or in a different place. You can have two places, basically adjacent to each other and one will out perform the other. The record books are a good starting place to plan your strategy of where to start looking. They also give one hope by letting them know that big bucks do exist in certain places of their state.

The above is meaningless unless ones goal is to start taking mature bucks. If it is your goal to hunt for a mature buck the record books can help verify whether you are wasting your time in a certain county or you are simply hunting wrong and not seeing them.

My point is........ don't only go by what you see. You may be doing something wrong.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Greg.....You REALLY never saw a 125in (P&Y) deer in the first 18 years of hunting??

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Resident hunting license... :DI do hunt PA from time to time andknow quite a fewwho hunt there...One example is two brothers whodo a lot of videoing and in factshot a150+ (among other nice bucks) with the bow that was on one of the Drury videos.... They don't live in Allegheny county either.

Ryan has laid down a couple, Matt/PA, Kidd, remember Muzzyman?... Heck he laid down a few fine PA bucks.....

I am just saying they are there..... For sure..... No doubt in my mind.... Are they on your specific land? That I do not know... But they are "there".

2004 statistics show PA as the #8 producer of P&Y bucks.... You guys were only a few years deep into AR's then.... Numbers don't lie..... and the numbers say PA was #8 in 2004....

Heck imagine what those PAnumbers could look like if you got to hunt the rut there... You are comparing apples and oranges with a pre rut PA hunt with a Ohio rut hunt.....

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RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

What you see, whether personally or trail cam pics, is proof of certain deer being there. What you do not see, and claim not to be there, is an educated guess, at best.

That being said, don't give me the BS that "other" mature deer do not live in or near your hunting grounds, when in fact, you have no proof. You are going by an educated guess at best and I don't care how else you try to see it.

LT

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I'm still hung up on Greg's statement because my observations over the last 20 some odd years have been QUITE different.....

Greg,

In those 18 years you didn't see a 135in or bigger deer, where were you hunting? Were you hunting the same land you are now in Illinois?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on how anyone in Illinois hasn't at least seen a P&Y (125in or bigger) deer in 18 years of hunting.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I agree, Greg. That's kinda the point. People need to understand the trophy productivity and frequency in their home counties before they go out there expecting to see a 180.

And you'll find out that when you finally do make the move to a Trophy-heavy area, you'll see different results almost immediately. It's not necessarily that you were doing something "wrong" at home, it's just that you were hunting a certain caliber of deer in an area that simply didn't hold enough of them to realistically give you a mathematical chance.

Obviously, this is why many huntersdumpthousands of dollars every year, intotraveling all over the U.S., instead of staying home and hunting in their own back yards.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Bingo!