RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I live & hunt outside of Meadville, there are plenty of 150 class bucks shot in rifle season and a few in bow season, the biggest detractor of killing big bucks here is the one and your done rule,you'll never shoot a 3.5 year old buck if you are happy shooting every 2-5 that walks under your tree.[:-]

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Im out of here for the weekend, everyone have a safe and fun 4th of July.

ps- It as a great change of pace to be a part of a thread whre everyone had a mature and interesting debate with no bickering.

Once again, have a safe and happy 4th.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

.0026% ? I'm so depressed I think I'll quit hunting.[&o]:DThe thing you forgot to factor in was habitat. If you own the best land and manage it for deer your % is going to go way up.

The fact is (and this is true for anywhere you will ever hunt) There are a few select places that produce trophy deer. These are usually the result of managed private land or places where hunting is not allowed.Access to these places is almost impossible. I travel 170 miles north to do my hunting. Within 10 miles of my house a 180+ buck was shot last year. rumor has it that the guy shot the small one. My chances at the other one are far less than .0026%. [&o]I have to laugh at all the people who look at those maps of trophy deer and believe that there is a trophy deer hiding behind every tree in Wis. Most of those deer are taken off private property where the deer are allowed to mature. I hunted for many years in central Wis. I saw only a handful of big bucks in all those years.
If I had the money it takes to grow trophy bucks I would retire instead and use the money to enjoy all that this world has to offer.

Many people say that age determines the trophy. Why do these people then complain that their area doesn't produce inches? Why do they suppliment with minerals? Minerals don't increase age. Why do they plant food plots? Why don't people look at a deer mount or picture and ask "how old was he"? Why do people ask "what did he score"? Why does the deer contest on this forum go by score and not age?

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Gary - Once I'm tagged-out in PA, I pass 2.5's until I think I'm out of time. At that point, I take the bow off the hook andtag out. I will not eat tags, especially the expensive NR variety. I'll wait as long as I can, but IWILL shoot something when the sun starts to set on my season. I don't care if it's a spike - I'm going to the check station one way or the other. I DO still enjoy shooting deer.

I just checked my log books - this year, I saw and/or passedSEVEN 2.5's in Ohio between 10/28 and 11/10 - six days in the tree. On 11/10,I shot a tree on a 120-125 class 4x4, and shot a 110" buck 30 minutes later. I passed bigger deer than the one I killed.

You'd hunt all year to kill a buck thatnice back near home. I saw eight in six hunts in Ohio, and killed #8. I was out of time.

So you suggest that I'm not killing booners because I'm not passing up the smaller stuff... Well... I AM passing up the smaller stuff - until I get to the point where I have to choose between shooting a decent buck or just going home and eating my tag. The difference is, back home in Fayette County, PA, you can pass 2.5's until you're blue-in-the-face, and the chances of a 140+ walking around the ridge are probably in the .0026% range.


For what it's worth: I'm amazed by my math skillz, and the aforementioned bell curve results. Sofa King Awesome.

By the way, great post Matt/PA.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Fran I see the lawyer in you coming out:D Notice what state I asked about.
I never said one word about Ohio, I know what a Out of Statetag cost.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Well no...not really, I guess there was (obviously) some reason why you didn't see any, perhaps there just weren'tas many around........like how it is in those other states I mentioned.;)

I do think it has more to do with location that experience gained throughout the years (although that helps) because I've been seeing P&Y caliber deer for as long as I can remember....I guess I'm just that good.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Sorry a little off topic:;) or is it?

Barometer

Most outdoorsman pay close attention to the barometric pressure as an indication of general activity no matter what sort of game they may be after. This is the number one one weather indictor to pay attention to and check regularly when heading to the woods. While it can be a complicated topic, whitetails seem to favor a moving barometer to a stationary one. A rising barometer (such as high pressure moving in after a storm) verses a falling one and a steady high barometer verses a steady low one seems to promote the best activity. You may want to invest in a barometer for your deer lodge or camp so you can track your specific area verses the one your get from the TV weather man, sometimes 100 miles or more from where you are.
A barometer in your deer camp will give you the ability to accurately anticipate the amount of deer movement you can expected on your next hunt.


Barometer/Barometric Pressure: A device that measures atmospheric pressure. A hunter should be aware of changes in barometric pressure. White-tailed deer sense pressure changes long before hunters experience an actual change in the weather. Deer movement always seems to increase with a change in the barometric reading. A constant wind in the evening, lasting into nightfall, is often a good indication the barometric pressure is going to change (that is a front is coming in). A rising barometer indicates fair or good weather is on the way. A falling barometer signals the approach of worsening weather.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

G: No. My best chance at having a great year is to shoot the first nice 2.5 that I can in PA, and head west to Ohio and try to be dialed-in on a fewsolid areas forwhen the rut finally arrives. The earlier I'm finished in PA, the more time I get to soakinto Ohio, where I believe that I stand the best statistical probability of shooting a big buck with the very limited amount of time that I have available.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I note where the needle is pointing then tap on the face to see if the needle moves up or down.:D

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Fran I think you do not use game cameras like me, so the Rut is the best time to hunt and see what is out there. Being you missed it, how do you, me or anyone really know unless we use game camera's? Spot lighting does not do it, I could spot light until I am blue in the face. Those big boys in PA and MI are not coming to a field where they can be spotted(that often).

Before any one jumps on me I am talking with Fran about deer hunting. There is no malice between us, we are learning together:D

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I just read this entire thread and I still have no idea of what a top end buck in my area is. I'll be hunting 150 miles from home in an area I'm not very familiar with. During spring turkey season I saw several large bodied deer. I have no idea what kind of headgear to hope for on a buck. All I have as a measuring stick for this land is a 3 1/2 yo 135" killed by the landowner during rile season last year. Before that this land wasn't hunted for 3 years. I'll be the only bowhunter this year. I believe I will have an opportunity at a 130" deer if I wait for it. But that belief is based mostly on heresay.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Check the birth certificates on the deer you see against the ones the local hunters have mounted in their dens and that should give you an idea of whats still out there.;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Many people say that age determines the trophy. Why do these people then complain that their area doesn't produce inches?

Most I see in this thread talking about it....aren't complaining. Pointing out something thats simply "the way it is" isn't a complaint, at all. It stating a point of view (and most likely...a fact).

Why do they suppliment with minerals? Minerals don't increase age.

Minerals aid not only bucks....but does, alike. Does use the minerals to aid them during lactating. Mineral sites are also good spots to put up trail cams to get an inventory of the herd one is hunting. It serves a valuable service to the hunter and the herd, in triplicate.

Why do they plant food plots?

See above.

Why don't people look at a deer mount or picture and ask "how old was he"?

I do. First thing I wanna know is: 1. Where was he shot? 2. HOW was he taken (what weapon)? 3. How old was he? & 4. What did he score?

People come in the forums all the time and ask opinions on a deer's age v. what he might score.

Why do people ask "what did he score"?

Because they want to know what he might/did score???

Why does the deer contest on this forum go by score and not age?

Because it had to have SOME method of distinguishing a "winner". Ask the forum (via a poll)if the 5.5yr old the man from TN shot that scored 105" is a bigger "trophy" than the 110" 2.5yr old from IL that was entered. The contest, of course, notwithstanding;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

G - Fuel Budget Permitting: I spot almost every othernight during the rut, different areas, different times...At least 3x per week. The big bucks come out once the does start getting hot. Honestly, I see my biggest bucks during late July, early August. Before they get poached or wise to the spotlights.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

same here

So again I ask
If you are missing out on the best time to see bigger bucks in PA, because you want to spend your time in Ohio(I completely understand why) how do you know what is there? This goes to my point in my first post, most of us simply do not know, the time it takes to know is just to much for most of us. That is a big me included on this one. I know there are more bigger deer than what I saw last year. I was just not smart enough to see them:( When you can admit that Fran, your're on your way;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Because, while I'm spending time in Ohio on weekends, I'm STILL residing here in PA for theother 5 daysofevery week. I get out doe hunting after work during the rut - not so much to hunt for doe - but moreso just to be out in the woods and see what I see.

There are plenty of other guys who hunt the same areas as I do - and they're not seeing booners. I'm not seeing booners when I run the spotlight. Nobody else is killing booners or seeing boonersin the area. I'm pretty sure that they just aren't there. Short of quitting my job, I really couldn't be looking much harder.

Gary, when you don't see them spotting, you don't see themfrom the tree, you don't see them in the summer, nobody finds their sheds, nobody kills any, and nobody finds the deads - it's more than reasonable to assume that they just aren't there.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I see at least 5000 deer per year in my travels. I've passed morebucks than I can even imagine. I'm in the woods or watching deerin some capacity or another for at least 100 days per year, and have been following the same routine for at least 8 years. I feel like that gives me a pretty fair idea of what makes a big deer for the area, and what expectations are "realistic."

If there's anyone out there who thinks Fayette County, Pennsylvania is Booner Country, feel free to come on out. I've got stand sites out the ass.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

fran sorry my parents live at our place and they don't see them. My neighbor has the best view of anyone and he doesnt see them.

I have never found one dead, shed(execpt 1 in Northen MI), of a legit P & Y deein in MI, so I guess they are not there.

Being you're not in a tree at th best time it makes it a bit tough. BTW how far does Rybo live from you?

We went from P&Y to booners:D Make that Monroe County also:D

BTW
NOBODY ever saw him spotting
NOBODY saw him in the summer

My Dad seen him Oct 29th in a been field chasing a doe, he got a closer look that night.

In MI, PA, NY and other pressure states you plain and simple are not going to see them(that often), execpt in the RUT.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

So we're back to page 1!:D

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Hell no your not seeing them if your spooking them with spotlights from july on. It's all comming to "LIGHT"now.:D:D

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I have always beenon page 1:D From the beginning:D

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_554112.html

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I curious, why would anyone suppliment the food and mineral needs of the does in an area that is already way overpopulated?

If 2 deer walked past your stand at the same time and one was 5.5 years old and scored 115 and the other was 3.5 and scored 155 which trophy would you shoot?

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Richard Simmons is gay?

I tend to agree with this.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I live about 40 minutes from Fran but our main hunting spots are more like 1.5 hrs apart.
Spotting is my best chance to see what’s in my general area, but it’s a lot of work & gas. I could go 5-6 nights without seeing a shooter, then all in a sudden catch a bachelor group at the right time. They get real spooky of the lights and people taking pot shots at them. I’m not sure if the pressure of spotting kills or saves more deer. They get hammered often enough with the light, I think they start to disappear before the crosshairs are centered.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Come oooon October 1st.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

My question is why in the world should we care how "smart" or "wise" the buck we shoot was (usually associated with age)? Isn't our whole goal to kill a deer? I have shot two bucks in PA that were over the 6 year mark and don't see any differance between them and the 3 year olds. The only real difference I see is a 1.5-2.5 and 3.5's or older.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I do also to a point.

Let be honest as for has habitat wise Minn has over twice as much as Iowa. Iowa shoots a larger percentage of their herd than Minn. Yet Iowa shoots twice as many big bucks also.

Management plans and hunters make a huge difference in location. Take Iowa's management and hunterattitude, put it in Minn,and we are all hating Minn instead of Iowa[8D]

I truly hate Iowa, Ill, Wis and KS[8D]

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Because it's not the fawns' fault. Call me a softy....but if I can help the does by providing minerals....I will. That it also helps the bucks is a bonus. That it also aids me in getting photos of the bucks.....icing on the cake. Plus....hell I'm gonna shoot a few of 'em....and I likes 'em healthy!

I've answered this honestly in a previous post. I'd shoot the 155. Shrink those numbers to 105" 5.5yr old and a 115" 3.5yr old....and I arrow the 105" 5.5yr old every time. It doesn't matter to me whether anyone else feels this way, believes me, or otherwise. That's what I'd do. See....in my woods they would BOTH be 2 of the "best" representative deer, there.....and I'd be tickled to death to take either one.

I don't chastise anyone for being an antler hunter....nor do I question their sanity or sincerity. Good for them. I'm an opportunist. Given the opportunity....I'll take the 1st "best" representative deer out of my woods that offers a shot. Hang 'em high.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Gary - the old lady that lives on one of the farms I hunt told me (honestly) that she had only seen 5 deer all season. The neighbor told me that they all died of EHD this year. He was serious. Laypeople have no clue what's lurking.

BTW - Rybo lives about 45 minutes away. I think he hunts further away yet.

But back to the mysterious ghost-bucks, I like to think that I DO know what caliber deer live in my own back yard.

Thousands and Thousands and Thousands of deer, every possible time of year... I don't know how else to tell you - but Ido indeed knowwhat kind of deer live in my area. You guys act like there's some kind of higher level of understanding involved... There's not.

I KNOW there's a statistical anomaly or two running around, and I HOPE that someday I'm lucky enough to see one... But I know some damn good hunters. And I know some people who hunt on some greatly-managed farms... And NOBODY is consistently killing PY bucks year-in, year-out in my area.I know this. For sure.

The fact of the matter is, if a big buck exists, it has to either die, or the antlers have to fall off. No way around it. When either of these events take place, it leaves hard evidence of its existence behind. My point is that where NO HARD EVIDENCE IS EVER FOUND - it's reasonable to presume that this imaginary caliber of deer simply did not exist in that area.

The tooth fairy doesn't beam down to earth and suck up the sheds. Aliens don't come down and scoop up the carcass.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

And PA;)

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

They do fall off, but I have no idea where they go:D
I have found 3 sheds on our farm in 23 years 3.

Spike
2 point
4 point

In all honesty I don't really look that hard, once I hang my last stand in Feb I am done walking around.

Jim PA is not at hate status yet, but they are getting close[8D]

Mee too, makes me wonder;)

Buckmagnet great point

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Germ, you have got it figured out to a T. Great post.

Minnesota: The land where the big bucks SHOULD be[8D]

I hate Iowa, Wisconsin, Ill, even the Dakotas...oh and Canada too! Minnesota nice, pish posh:D.

This is why I've made it a point to talk to land owners and hunters on all the surrounding farms around ours to get our own management plan in order since the MN DNR will not. Play the cards you're dealt, you can make you're location better...if you choose.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Well, I was one of those people saying that age determines a trophy......and I never said my area(s) don't produce inches. As a matter of fact, it does....and it doesn't. My camp and main hunting area is in NW Ontario....about 100 miles from the nearest ag field and about as big of woods as you can get. This area is known for the huge body size and also great age structure. Like I said earlier, you can have two 5.5 yr olds, one 80" and one 160".

Here's a question.....I hear a lot of guys saying that they see bucks that are x.x yrs old and x.x years old. How do you detemine that you saw 2 3.5 and 1 4.5 year old in a season? Are you basing this on antler size? Body composition? Have you been watching this deer for x number of years? So, when guys tell me they are seeing bucks of a certain age, I don't put much stock in it. Its more of a guess than a fact. Kind of like the numbers a lot of guys throw out about rack size on live deer.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Everyone talks about Ohio and other states as having huge populations of BIG deer. I think it depends on your area and what land you have access to. I hunt an area that has moderate pressure especially gun season. I see allot of deer every year. In the few years I've been hunting the area (6-7) I've seen 3-4 bucks over the 120-130 mark (the biggest of which is in my avatar) A mature deer in one area may not sport the headgear my buck did. Genetics plays a big role here. I think overpopulation or over hunting of bucks cause alot of smaller racked bucks over time. Then you have other places that have huge racked younger deer. Are they "out there"... well I think so. Here a 120 is probably not a bad goal. You may eat tag soup some years though.

Basically if your hunting 1000 acres you can "look" harder for the bigger ones. But if your like me and hunt smaller plots then your not going to have the same chances. Same goes of public land or private. There is an advantage to private land. No one should argue that. I killed mine on a 12.5 acre lot (allot of which is unhuntable due to a house and yard) so I don't have a huge advantage over public. And trust me I have some of the same problems like ATVs on the neighbors property etc.

Every area isn't holding the next world record, or a 180, 150, or even 120. But I think a few mature deer exist everywhere, regardless of the antler size.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I have no idea:D Unless I see them two years in a row. Than I havea good guess. I go by body. I am just guessing

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Remember when(if) you played little league baseball, football, or whatever you played? OK, let's say your team lost to the champs. Trophy time rolls around and instead of just handing out the trophies, they let you, the losing team, pick whatever "size" trophy you want. (Provided the bigger trophies are actually there for picking-Sorry Jeff)

Now, do you carry your little snot-nosed self over to the itty bitty trophy table or do you go grab the biggest one you can carry?

Don't give me the BS that you would pick the small one because we know that would be the right thing to do. blah, blah, blah

You know which trophy you would want and you know why. It looks better. Feels better in your hands. More to brag about. And it is shinier than the crown on the Undisputable King of Window-Lickers' head. That's why!

LT

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Everybody who participated in this thread gets an awesome E-Trophy from the King. Very good debate, lots of interesting and intelligentopinions offered by all-involved. It's quite rare that we get a 20-pager that doesn't turn into a (highly-amusing) mudslinging match.


Awesome


Germ and Motown each get Barbie dolls.


Sexy

While I don't think this discussion changed anyone's opinions, ultimately, I do think we may be able to glean an understanding of the odds and statistical frequencies involved when hunting the biggest deer on your farm, in your township, or in your county.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Thanks for the Barbie mate. Nice collection you have there also. Kind of explaines why the kings mouth is shaped like a circle track. " Lets go racin boys "

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

I like dirt track racing.

RE: Big Buck Barometer
 

Last time I checked record keeping orginizations score by inches of antlers!

Pretty simple, age really doesn't count for anything. It seems age comes into play onlywhen someone is trying to validate an Old Buck they took into being trophy class.

Even at that age a lot of times is only a guess!:eek:

It doesn't matter to me what you kill. Kill what you want, and I'll do the same. If you are Happy, I'm tickled for you as well;)

Don't try to enter a 100" 7.5 year old in P&Y and think it has a chance to make it.:D

Dan