Deleted User

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Lilhunter

naw my longbow carries no better or no worse payload then any other bow. It is just a different device that is creating the same kind of energy. Its how one use' s that energy, that is the difference. You can seek to derive the most possible gains, or just waste it away following in suit with american traditions!

As we all know , deer have hooves and not claws.
therefore they are only able to duck by means of gravity , they are not able to grasp the ground with thier claws and pull themselves downward at a quicker rate of speed than that

so you are saying you would rather shoot faster so you dont miss if they do decide to try and " duck the string" ?

also do you understand the difference between a dry and a green shoulder? I am sure you do with one with hair, hide, meat, sinew, and finally bone...even then, shot angle, placement, and a couple other factors can and will come into play as the bone itself has variables across its sections.....shew all these variables.

As you can see just about any test where there is even the slighest amount of human element in this is seriously flawed. The problem is animals are not machines. When doing shooting tests, hopefully you can make some kind of shooting machine where the results are constant and there is no human error to have to try and factor in to the 1/4" . (your results are only as good as the shooter and I highly doubt you will find someone close to a shooting machine).

I guess I have to disagree, just because there is claws, they dont just relax all muscles and fall at the rate of gravity. That however is a different debate....... heck stand there and relax all your muscles and try and fall at gravity, straight down.

and like I said, you still havent quite or seem to ignore the other factors to penetration. its nice you atleast dont rely it soley on KE or Speed like many others. but its a shame you turn cheek

btw, get away from your whitetails, there are things that you will understand that otherwise would have never been brought to your attention! If you dont understand them you will seek to figure them out. These are just pure and simple facts

CBM SC

Lamb1647, How can you say to someone you don' t know, that their bow is loud because they shoot a lightweight arrow? Have you heard mine ? It would be hard for me to imagine anyones bow being much quieter than mine. Also I only shoot 308 fps and with a 20 yrd pin , I get about 1.5" drop at 30 yrds and about 3" drop at 35 yrds shooting on the ground. So I definately can see how Krisken is getting what he says.
And I broke the entry shoulder and spine on a 3 1/2 year old buck this year as he was trying to duck my little 352 grn arrow at 30 yrds ,with a Spitfire EXPANDABLE!!

Why did he duck ..........a poor factory fletching job on my arrow......it was not bow noise.
Would I have hit him with a 250 fps arrow = NO!!
Should I have done more testing with my arrows before hunting=YES!!
Did they penetrate = I ate venison yesterday and have a head in the freezer to European mount !!

lamb1647

CBM SC,

I have stood in Archery Shops and been at 3-D shoots and heard the " quiet" 300+ fps bows that shooters bragged about. In reality they were far from quiet. Compare them to the quiet thud of a good longbow and they are " NOISEY" !!

Your shot at the buck was at the extreme end of the range at which deer will drop at the release of the arrow. I suspect yours tried to drop as he heard the arrow whistling as it zipped towards him. They definitely can drop to jump quicker than the arrow can get to them if they are within the 30 yard range.

And no, they don' t dig in, they drop, about 1 foot to jump when they hear a sound that they cannot identify and are within the roughly 17 to 30 yard range their first reaction is to drop. Of course, that is a general statement, but is far too often the case.

Bill

Arthur P

Speed is nice. I' d take a fast bow that handles, shoots and tunes exactly the same as a slower bow any day of the week. But I have yet to see a fast bow that' s ANYWHERE near as as good at combining a smooth and easy draw, sweet shooting, braindead-easy tuning, forgiveness and consistent accuracy as a basic old round wheel bow. I gladly give up speed for those characteristics.

Speed is all you need? Outright BS, especially for a hunting rig. Forgiveness in imperfect conditions, precise accuracy and a quiet shot are what you NEED. Let speed fall where it may. It doesn' t matter if that speed winds up at 180 fps or 340 fps, you' re going to need a sharp knife after the shot.

archerick

Speed is a really great asset. I try to get all I can out of my bow. However, speed usually aquired compromising forgivness. I like a forgiving, shootable bow. The really fast bows have really short brace heights, thus making them less forgiving. So basically anyone with less than perfect form (which is most of us) will hit the wrong spot at 320-350 feet per second. But like anything, " It' s great if you like it" .

dick_cress

This is a technical term . . . but I need to make a correction. DEER DO HAVE CLAWS! Four of them to be exact withh the front being larger than the rear. They are called " Dewclaws!" [X(]

Unless you are shooting faster than the speed of sound the deer will react to your shot by ducking . . . hence the recommendation that the best aiming spot is 1/3 up from the belly. If and when they duck, they are then hit in the center of the lung area. I won' t argue with known fact.

I have shot deer that did not duck . . . but most have. It ain' t much but may be a prime reason that some arrows go over the back

Deleted User

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Arthur P

I don' t know about your test or your math wizard, but MY calculator says you' re wrong.

The speed of gravity is 32.16 fps^2. That' s right at 386 inches per second. Just relying on gravity alone, a deer could drop 20" in .052 second.

An arrow traveling 345 fps would take a solid .174 second to travel 20 yards, .261 second to travel 30 yards and .348 second to go 40 yards. And that' s assuming a constant 345 fps and not even taking air resistance into account! The actual flight time is longer. The deer can duck clean under your arrow AT LEAST 3 times faster than your 345 fps arrow can get to it.

My calculator says to get that 345 fps arrow into that deer before it can drop 3 1/4" , you' d need to be shooting from 1 yard away.

ACLakey

The Acceleration of gravity is 32.16 ft/s^2 This is not a velocity it is the first derivative of the velocity equation and the second derivative of the position equation.

If we use equations from physics describing objects in free fall we need to look at the position equation (simplified for our purposes) y = (0.5)*g*t^2 that is how far the object (in feet) will fall in a given time t. The velocity component (simplified) of that is v = g*t this is how fast the object is falling (in feet/second) in given time t.
I agree with the above calcs.

Just relying on the acceleration of gravity in order for the deer to drop 3.25in or .27ft it would take 0.13 seconds.

In order for his arrow (at 345 feet/second) to get to target before the deer dropped 3.25in (just relying on gravity to drop the deer) he would have to shoot from a distance of 44.85 feet or roughly 15 yards.

All of this is assuming

- The arrow travels in a straight line.
- The arrow has no loss in velocity due to air resistance.
- The deer only falls due to the acceleration of gravity.
- Newton is correct.

Don’t even get me started on the momentum issue.