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RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Earlier I indicated that speed is not all that is needed. If you were to equate mass to zero and solve the KE equation for your speed, you would get o (zero) KE so it would be obvious that you need more than speed to obtain a penetrating momentum. To take an animal you MUST HAVE SOME MASS and SOME SPEED; this alone disproves your initial premise " Speed is all you need!(?). Put your numbers into the KE formula, equating the mass to zero and you come up with zero KE. Without some KE (aka momentum) you would have zero penetration.

You have a given speed and a given mass and together they provide a Momentum (aka Kinetic Energy) to penetrate an animal; and what you have works. Fundamentally to gain any penetration at all . . . Kinetic Energy MUST BE GREATER THAN ZERO.

The numbers you give yield 81.8 ft-lbs of Kinetic Energy (aka MOMENTUM). So regardless of what others say you do have sufficient momentum. 20 ft-lbs more than I do and I nearly always get passthroughs.

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Dan, you have e-mail. Narf[8D]

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

This looks like a good place to get my question answered. I am pretty new to bowhunting. I have a legacy 60# 28.5 draw and 29inch arrows weighing 350 with 85 tip or 365 with 100gr. Which should I use. And is this enough grains for whitetail? I haven' t shot is through a chrono yet. Also, someday I may hunt elk is this light of an arrow a total no no for elk?

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Woody....got it. All' s I can say is this will be good.......[>:]


Btw, SD, if you follow what a couple folks here are posting, beware!!! Stick to what Art, or Ak if he ever pipes in has to say. These guys know the theory behind penetration...the formula' s etc. I know whats going on and why, but cant shot it with some fancy physics numbers completely from A-Z......YET! I do have bits and pieces and a ton of info on it so far, but none of it jives, go figure. Some of them are even contradicting themselves. Kinda like Dick Cress. In which I will prove to him Momentum and Penetration are not one and the same!

Trying to change the thoughts of an industry is a giant leap. Will it happen, probably not. Will you even need to worry about it on your antelope or whitetails, probably not in a best case scenerio!

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

better get those books out Dick....here is something for you to look at.

An important difference is that momentum is a vector quantity - it has a direction in space, and momenta combine like forces do. Kinetic energy is a scalar quantity - it has no direction in space, and kinetic energies combine like " regular numbers" .

The momentum of an object is proportional to the object' s velocity - if you double its velocity, you double its momentum. The kinetic energy of an object is proportional to the square of the object' s velocity - if you double its velocity, you quadruple its velocity. This has important consequences...

more to follow......

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

I' m Irish . . . I love a good debate. But how do you debate Sir Isaac Newton????

Tell me why " It is the product of the mass of a moving particle multiplied by its linear velocity. {quoted from the following article}" isn' t the same as our Kinetic Energy Formula????

Momentum, also linear momentum, in physics, fundamental quantity characterizing the motion of any object (see Mechanics). It is the product of the mass of a moving particle multiplied by its linear velocity. Momentum is a vector quantity, which means that it has both magnitude and direction. The total momentum of a system made up of a collection of objects is the vector sum of all the individual objects' momenta. For an isolated system, total momentum remains unchanged over time; this is called conservation of momentum. For example, when a batter hits a baseball, the momentum of the bat just before it strikes the ball plus the momentum of the pitched baseball is equal to the momentum of the bat after it strikes the ball plus the momentum of the hit baseball. As another example, imagine a beaver jumping off a stationary log that is floating on water. Before the beaver jumps, the log and the beaver are not moving, so the total momentum is zero. Upon jumping, the beaver acquires forward momentum, and at the same time the log moves in the other direction with an equal and opposite momentum; the total momentum of the beaver plus the log remains at zero.
Conservation of momentum is one of the most important and universal of the conservation laws of physics; it holds true even in situations where modern theories of physics apply. In particular, conservation of momentum is valid in quantum mechanics (see Quantum Theory), which describes atomic and nuclear phenomena, and in relativistic mechanics, which must be used when systems move with velocities that approach the speed of light (see Relativity).
According to Newton' s second law of motion-named after the English astronomer, mathematician, and physicist Sir Isaac Newton-the force acting on a body in motion must be equal to its time rate of change of momentum. Another way of stating Newton' s second law is that the impulse-that is, the product of the force multiplied by the time over which it acts on a body-equals the change of momentum of the body.

" Momentum," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 98 Encyclopedia. (c) 1993-1997 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Kinetic Energy, energy possessed by an object, resulting from the motion of that object. The magnitude of the kinetic energy depends on both the mass and the speed of the object according to the equation

E = 1mv2 [This is 1/2 X Mass X Velocity Squared the formula doesn' t come through correctly in a tex based system]

where m is the mass of the object and v2 is its speed multiplied by itself. The value of E can also be derived from the equation

E = (ma)d

where a is the acceleration applied to the mass, m, and d is the distance through which a acts. The relationships between kinetic and potential energy and among the concepts of force, distance, acceleration, and energy can be illustrated by the lifting and dropping of an object.
When the object is lifted from a surface a vertical force is applied to the object. As this force acts through a distance, energy is transferred to the object. The energy associated with an object held above a surface is termed potential energy. If the object is dropped, the potential energy is converted to kinetic energy. See Mechanics.


scalar (sk³" l…r, -lär" ) n.
1. A quantity, such as length, that is completely specified by its magnitude and has no direction.
[From Latin sc³lae, ladder.]


" scalar," (c) 1994 Houghton Mifflin Company. (c) 1994 INSO Corporation. All rights reserved.

kinetic energy n.
1. The energy possessed by a body because of its motion.

" kinetic energy," (c) 1994 Houghton Mifflin Company. (c) 1994 INSO Corporation. All rights reserved.

momentum (m½-mµn" t…m) n.
pl. momenta (-t…) or momentums
1. The product of a body' s mass and velocity. Also called linear momentum.
2. Impetus.
[Latin m½mentum, movement, from mov¶re, move.]

" momentum," (c) 1994 Houghton Mifflin Company. (c) 1994 INSO Corporation. All rights reserved.

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Dick you are making my head hurt:(.

Brian

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

[X(]Wow, 6 pages of crap !!!!.Speed,shmeeeedddd.If your HUNTING a deer and not just going out to SHOOT a deer, speed comes further down the list of important things.I have never shot a deer past 20 yards.Hunting wood lots mostly, lends itself to close range hunting.
That is, if you do your home work ;)

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