Tomorrow I'm going to setup a GTO to the same specs you mentioned and shoot the same grain arrow just to see how things go. I'll post up the numbers.

If you wish to discuss the merits of technological advancements in the industry, fine -- but please do so without resorting to name-calling. Thank you.

In 1996 I bought the very top of the line Hoyt Defiant. We had to do everything exactly perfect from manipulating string strands, speed buttons, limits on the string itself, and twist and tweek to barely reach 300 fps. Today, the 82nd is shooting that same arrow 327 fps at a shorter draw, same quietness, probably less hand shock. No Fran, they haven't changed.

I've used the exact same arrow, my ACC and it wasn't until my 06 Ally that I acheived over a 300 fps speed on a factory set bow.

And Fran, (me laughing hysterically), I'd love to see you shoot that toothpick you call an arrow out of a bow from oh, 10 years ago.....no, they haven't changed a bit. LMAO.

Not Hardly!

Dan

LOL - You guys crack me up. I just gave away a bow that would IBO in the 3-teens. My buddy has an old BlackMax collecting dust in his basement that will do 325+ all day long. IfI getbored with the Mathews, I know where there's a gently used Black Knight that will top 330 IBO legal. It's IBO rated at 350, for whatever that's worth. So you could probably squeeze a little more out of it.

New? Ha. Hardly.

Remember the old G-Force lineup from PSE? Slap a new camo patternon there - change up the limbs a little bit, rework the riser - and you've got an X-Force. Woohoo.

Using our own GregH as an example: dude was getting 320 out of his old High Country Max Force - and I think that bow is 10 years old. Maybe 12. LOLI think he might've even been using underspined aluminum arrows.

Like I said: you can build more durablelimbs, you can make better strings, you can quiet it down, you can lighten it up, you can coat it with prettier camo- but you can't change the fact that we will always be restrained by our own strength limitations and power strokes.

And at the end of the day, it's a game of draw length, arrow weight, draw curve and brace height. Just like always.

The future of purespeed in archery is in the arrow. It always has been.

If you think things have really changed all that much, since the advent of the binary (and solo) cam systems around 1990- you're only fooling yourself. You figure, the average top-end bow has gained what? 15 fps? maybe? in 10 years?


Seriously - huntingson just walked into an archery shop with a 10-year-old one-cammer (from a company that everybody ridicules for being "slow", no less), and it shot right in the same ballpark as the current market leaders. I mean, the truth is right there. I'm sure the guy isn't just making it all up. Sure, Huntingson and I have had our arguments, but I know he's no liar.


...and Greg - I didn't call anyone a name. I know he's your friend, but Dan is a big boy - and he can fight his own fights.

Dan - to answer your smugquestions: I've been shooting compoundbow for 17 years, since '90 or '91. And if I had a 31" draw - with my current setup - I could build an arrow (with broadhead) thatshoots over 400 feet per second TODAY. With repeatable results.

The allys shot about 304 with a 70 POUNDDRAWweightand a 350 grain arrow w/ 29in . you are pulling less and shooting a heavier arrow. what did you expect.

Ok who's doing a test for us today? I can do one in about 8 weeks when MY GTO gets here[&:]

I am truly learning a lot here and thank you to everyone for informing me. Greg, that math makes perfect sense and I can at least rationalize what is going on with the Ally. Now I am stillstumped on the GTO, and thanks to Rob posting his #'s I absolutely have to shoot an 82nd with speed mods.

Even if I gain no speed I will say again that I was amazed at how smooth all these bows shot. Every one of them was a better draw cycle than my current bow and the release is amazing. I am going to continue to poke around and try another shop that might have another GTO and an 82nd with speed mods. Germ was nice enough to send me more info on the GTO and with what some of you are saying about the early shipped ones, etc I feel like something is amiss.

im buying a new GTO on friday , ive not heard to much about these bows can someone tell me a little more about them, im from arkansas and we have no elite dealers around my area.

www.elitearchery/forums

All you need to know, good luck

Elite GTO 33'' ATA
7'' BH
340-350 FPS IBO
Bow has a smooth draw for a speed bow. Great limbs Barnsdale, and Nealy Strings and cables