Even if you did......
 

Even if you were able to hunt someone elses (HNIer) spot, could you really expect the same results? Why or why not! ;)

RE: Even if you did......
 

Yes. I think so.

You take two guys hunting similarly (both staying clean....playing the wind......hutning similarly sized parcels).....

What would lead someone to believe that they wouldn't have similar results?

This question could easily be applied to the woods I hunt. I kill a lot of deer.....for several reasons.....but one being (and this is the most important).....there are a lotof deer, here. I don't kid myself into thinking otherwise.

So.....if most anyone from the boards here came to my woods......could they do what I do every year?

Most certainly. It isn't rocket science.

I used the example of Matt/PA and Rob/PA a few months back. Rob has never harvested a 100" deer. Matt took (well...what we THOUGHT was a P&Y) his first GREAT (congrats) buck this past fall. These two guys have a TREMENDOUS amount of whitetail knowledge.....but they;'re bound to the places they have access to.

Jay Gregory said a few weeks ago......"A hunter is only as good as the ground he hunts"

To think otherwise......is kind of like saying....."I kill more/bigger deer.....not because they're more plentiful.....or because I have better odds.......no....it's because I'm a better hunter than you".

Isn't it???

RE: Even if you did......
 

No. I think knowing the woods and the deer makes all the difference in the world. I could goto your place Greg and my not even see a deer if I don't know the terrain and the how the herd moves on that terrain. Location is important, albeit, but you still need to know the deer and their activities. For example, I have been hunting the same woods for 20 yrs, and i have killed several nice bucks, but I don't kill one every year, even though I know these woods in the dark, deer will and do change their patterns according to how I hunt them, thay know when they are being invaded.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Similar, no... better:D

RE: Even if you did......
 

No way..everyones different. Be it scent control, shot selection..etc etc

Don't discount that everyone sees deer differently too. I think I'm as much, or more, perceptive to seeing deer than most. (don't mean to sound braggish) But I see deer if they are around. Be it an ear flicker or just something "out of sorts". If they are there I can usually see'em. This gives the hunter an advantage early in the process.

There is no reason to belive you could be as succesful based on someone elses results..and in the same breathe there is no reason you couldn't even be, more successful..theres just too many unknowns.

RE: Even if you did......
 

No. Like GMMAT said, if someone (average ability) moved to a patch of woods like his(no offense), it would be expected that they kill something because there is a high population of deer. But if you moved someone to the opposite end of the spectrum like a sweet piece of PA gamelands, i wouldnt expect them to kill anything or atleast get the same results as someone who knows the woods and has hunted it for years.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Good question GregH
I'm sure that if any other members were fortunate enough to hunt on another members spot , he / she would probably expect some type of sucess.
It really depends on what that hunter does before and during the hunt and of course the help if any that the other member does for him or her.

RE: Even if you did......
 

It depends on the hunter .......

RE: Even if you did......
 

IDK I brough ol Mossy out and he shot a bigger buck than anyone ever in our camp. 1 hour into the first day. Bett to be lucky than good.

RE: Even if you did......
 

What's the premise? That they are "successful" right off the bat? Give them a season? Two?

Given the same learning curve as the original hunter is how I'm basing my point. Do I think someone could come to my woodsand do what I do(in sheer numbers) in the first season?

Nope.

The next? ABSOLUTELY. TWO years in.....no telling what they could do.

Could they be successful, though....in that first season? Sure. we have deer numbers, here......like some have deer numbers in BIG deer. It's a numbers game.

The premise of my question was.....(original)....if you HAD to shoot a P&Y deer .......where would you think your best chance of doing that was. I'd go to the placeI thought had the most of them.

fastbuck.....you can't have it both ways IMO.

RE: Even if you did......
 

It depends on how long I would have to "learn" the spot.

If I got in there for 1 week of hunting out of the whole season, thenno.

If I had a post/pre season to scout around and learn the spot, the deer trails, movementand sign, then maybe.

If I lived there and had unlimited access over time, then yes.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Maybe not the same but similiar and over time. There is no way you could know all the ins and outs of the land(crops, water, topography, etc)and deer in short time. You could know enough to have somesuccess but not enough to know all the bedding areas, buck trails/core areas, crop situations, changing patterns from fall through winter, etc. etc. etc. I think this kind of info is crucial especially for more mature deer that are the resident experts on the land.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Another thing that would affect success would be the type of terrain. I've hunted mostly hardwoods and very hilly terrain, so I havean amount of understanding of deer patterns in that situation. If I were to hunt, let's say a prarie, I would be at a disadvantage without any scouting, local knowledge or studying.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I believe with some basic knowledge of the property and using good scent control and doing some simple research on prevailing winds and such. A newcomer to a piece of land can do almost just as well as the person that hunts that property regularly. Hunting whitetails is not rocket science, I believe it is more about using common sense and knowing how a whitetail uses its senses. We all know about keeping our scent at a minimum and camo and all the things that can increase our odds, but we all have to admit LUCK does play a part in each and every hunt.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Nope. Everyone is different, while the basics are the same as mentioned I know if I hunted mountains in Idaho I would get my butt kicked the first couple seasons! Same way if I had to hunt where you share properties with 6 or 8 other bowhunters. I know how deer act in brushy draws and valleys surrounded by corn, beans, and alfalfa fields but to think I know exactly what to do anywhere else is a joke. Eventually I will learn but it would take at least two seasons to truely understand the deer in a particular 'different' area I think.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Best post so far.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Look at it like this.....

If I asked you where your best chances of finding a woman in a bikini was.....the beach would probably rank right up there. Where would you go to find one?

Same thing with a P&Y deer. You go where they ARE. That's your best chance of getting one;).

In regards to the hunting land.....remember that THAT person had a learning curve, too. Take that into consideration.......and its why I asked for a clarification several posts ago.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Perhaps the incoming hunters has better deer understanding than the original hunter. Maybe the learning curve is shorter or more obvious. Isn't this why we see so many aerial photos during the season to learn what others see.Or do we need to see the aerials for 2 years before we can make reccomendations?

We don't have to understand the dynamics of the entire herd we are presumely hunting for 1 deer (a good buck). Perhaps this isn't achieved in a day..but a season? I'd like my chances.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Personally, I wouldn't expect my success to be the same as the persons place I was hunting, at least for the first 2 seasons.

What leads me to believe that the results wouldn't be similar is the fact that I've hunted my spot with a good friend of mine for the last 5 seasons. The results have been far from similar. I have taken 4 P&Ys and one that grosses 125. My friend has taken 1 P&Y, 1 that grosses P&Y, a 115", a shed buck and has been skunked once.

There are many different reasons for this difference. This guy is adecent hunter, descents before each hunt and uses scent lock and pays attention to the wind. I don't use any scent killing products, only clean clothes and boots, pay super attention to the wind and usually smoke from my stand (not recommended). I feel the diferences are that I know deer way more than my friend does, I've been studying them for a very long time. My friend does things that make him feel good about his set up, pruning a lot of limbs, hanging bow ropes from every stand, drawing his bow often to keep loosened up, among other things. Me on the other hand, I prune very little and when I do I place the trimmings stragically like a flower arrangement so they're not noticable to humans and deer alike. I don't leave bow ropes (scent wicks) hanging from my stands, etc. In short, I only do things that the deer won't notice or will tolerate. I put the deer before myself. I give them way more credit that necessary. Better safe than sorry.I take that extra step to do what it takes. The results speak for themselves.

It ain't rocket science, but it can be! ;)

RE: Even if you did......
 

In all honesty, probabaly not, unless they put me in a good spot. The HNI'r would have much more knowledge about the property, I would have topo map knowleadge, whatever I was told about the property, and whatever info I coulddecipher myself and useat the property. Plus my knowledge is mainly from farm hunting, put me in big woods and I may as well be Goldylox.As far as scent control, being able to stay undetected, putting hours in, and getting kill shots isnt a concern. When should I take my vacation days Greg!!

RE: Even if you did......
 

I said this back on Page 1.

So I said this, later....

I stand by this.

So I guess you're saying.......(and I don't want to put words in your mouth, Greg)

And there's nothing wrong with this POV....if you believe that.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Lmao, some of your post and thoughts crack me up!! Getting a piece and shooting a mature 4.5+ buck is 2 different things. No way you can use that analogy.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Who's going to be the first to get it caught in thier zipper? [:o]

RE: Even if you did......
 

Why not? The analogy is only saying.....there's "strength in numbers" (odds-wise).....or that the odds go exponentially UP when the number of targets abound.

That's fairly simple.

RE: Even if you did......
 

It is about location but the hunter has to make it all come together.On my land I have good success but a couple of the guy's I hunt with don't see 1/2 the deer that I see.1 of the guy's see more than I do. Yes land does help but the hunter has to make the right choices when they go out.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I think alot of it has to do what state you hunt in. I live and most of my hunting is in PA not considered a big buck state like Il,WI,Ka.Io. ect. The antler restrictions are starting to work and Bigger bucks are starting to come out of PA.Most of the guys on this site are seasoned hunters who know scent controll,play the wind, stand placement, scout hard, read maps and know the whitetail habits ect! If you put them in a area that has more big bucks then their state I think giving time the would do just as well. I hunted Il 2 times and I seen more big bucks in the 12 days then the 36 years I been hunting in PA. I hunted with a outfitter in Il and the hunting was slow. I asked my guide if I could maybe do some scouting on my own. Much to my suprise he said yes. I scouted for a day and found a great looking spot and set up a stand. The next day I shot a nice 10pt . and my buddy hunted that spot on the last day of the hunt a missed a monster from there. I know luck played a big part but so did knowing what to look for. So I think most of the hunters on here could do well anywhere they hunt in due time.

Hatchet Jack

RE: Even if you did......
 

yep here we go, location..location...location..[:@]

RE: Even if you did......
 

If we can't discuss it.....we can't. I saw nothing out of line posted by anyone.

RE: Even if you did......
 

You saying this is a contest?

RE: Even if you did......
 

No not the beach its pretty cold here, I am thinking the waterpark up in the Wisconsin Dells where I will be in April.;):)
If I went down my you Jeff I would think my chance would be great at getting a deer as opposed to you coming up here.
You definatly have the numbers down by you.
Now as far as a P&Y buck its a crap shoot and probably would take ME a couple years.
Now shooting a 200 lb deer your chances are better up here.
I would like to see dukemichaels post on this because he is always hunting new ground year after year and
scores after what seems a couple of hunts.

Now when it came to a P&Y buck your chances and even my chance would be higher at GregH's spot then
either one of ours. (125") How much higher I am not sure.

I will have to check this when I get back Saturday I am heading out to the Galena Terroritories in IL shed hunting and visiting my inlaws.

You all behave in here or no cocktails when I get back.[8D]

RE: Even if you did......
 

I think the results would be different. I have been bowhunting for 3 years now with some degree of success. I have killed several deer, all were fairly immature though. I believe I would do better on better land but I don't think I could consistantly kill BIG bucks with my level of experience. GregH, lets find out! I'll save some vacation time for November :D, what do ya think?
Honestly I think I'll need a few more years chasing deer to get the experience, knowledge, and skill level some other members like you have reached.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Let me explain it this way.........I bowhunted PA for (at the time) 20 seasons and never SAW a P&Y caliber deer in all those years from stand. NEVER SAW ONE.

I leased a farm in West Central (Scott Co.) IL in 2004 and after 1/2 day of low impact scouting, I hung a stand and had an 18 yard opportunity at an honest 160" 10pt. (I spooked the doe that was with him and blew it but that's beside the point;):D)
I saw multiple P&Y bucks, passed 3 that would have been my largest to date and really should have gotten it done first day in.

Luck? Coincidnece? Location?

There really is a direct relationship to location and success, especially for the people with any skills. It's undeniable.
A person with 1/2a head on his shoulders might not hammer them first year in a new quality location, there are subtle patterns etc that get refined over the years but you gotta hunt where they are.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I'll drive txjourneyman! Where do I pick you up!:D

Hatchet Jack

RE: Even if you did......
 

Hell no Greg!! A perfect example would be me going up to Canada where Dan does his guiding. I guarantee my luck compared to his luck would be night and day!! I've got some good knowledge on these whitetails but huntingDans area compared to my area would be like almost starting all over again and learning a new way to hunt. He's got the huge big woods, I have my little farm parcels here and there. I'm guessing it might take me 4 to 5 years to get an idea of what I got to do to score on some of these big bucks. I have no problem saying I may not have the success that the owner does on his land, thats just plain ridiculous if you think you can match up with anyone on there land in a given time. Some could probably do this but not many in my opinion. It takes time to learn these big boys, it takes even more time to get them in front of you (specially on someone else's land)

RE: Even if you did......
 

Tony....don't get me wrong....but read this, again.

The entire premise was.....Where would you hunt......if you HAD to kill a P&Y?

We're not talking about killing "A" deer. We're talking about killing a P&Y buck.

So....in that regard.....YOU DEFINITELY have the numbers up by YOU;)

I wouldn't feel threatened AT ALL if someone made a post asking.....

"Whose woods would you most like to hunt .....if you HAD to kill 5 deer this fall?"

If my name got picked on that one.....I'd know why;) I'm just asking the same question.....only using a P&Y buck as the intended quarry.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Yes I agree pal when it comes to P&Y I would stay up here.
I didnt see that in greg's original post.

I also think with all the killing of doe's during the season which has you going in and out of your property so much the ones that might be there scatter out.
Possible?


T

RE: Even if you did......
 

I did not see the P&Y qualifier in this question either. It was asked the same results as the person hunting. So inGMMATs case it would be multiple does and a nice buck (score??)..in Gregs case it would be a (what?) 168" buck. And so on..

RE: Even if you did......
 

Yeah I just used Jeff as an example because 2 totally different area's of the country, sry pal

RE: Even if you did......
 

GR8.....If this thread wasn't in direct response to the one I posted recently.....I apologize. If it was....I stand by my answers....because that WAS the premise (had to kill a P&Y buck).

And if it wasn't.......it's a pretty bold statement to say that you do things so much better than anyone who could come to your woods......which is why I posted this on page 1. It would be like saying.....

Again....nothing wrong with that.....if that's what you believe.

This was the original question from the other post....and the inference was made....

RE: Even if you did......
 

Jeff sorry man I didnt know this was based on another post, my bad.