RE: Even if you did......
 

Charlie it's not so beyond the realm of understanding for a hunter to realize he'd have to adapt to different terrains and even herds. Heck we all do it on different properties, woodlots, etc... every year right here at our respective home hunting grounds.

Given equal learning curves....I give the average HNI hunter the benefit of the doubt to be able to do this.

RE: Even if you did......
 

You can't define with any precision the intangibles as it relates to hunting ability.As it relates to hunting another HNI'rs location,if they are any kind of a hunter at all you should not be able to equal their success for at least two seasons,if they are not you may do it more quickly.
I don't completely understad the need to attempt to boil these things down.The best Hunters "consistently" kill the best bucks that their area hold.
Another consideration as it relates to this is time.You can be inferior as a hunter to another hunter but be more successful because you devote more time hunting.Does that mean you are a better hunter? A lot of these things are way over thought IMO.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Your right Jeff . :Dok?

RE: Even if you did......
 

I think from now on my fiirst response will be your right Jeff and go from there.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I don't give a rat's ass about being "right".....I simply challenge you to back up your claims. I have no trouble admitting when I'm wrong..and I've done it (ate crow)on numerous occasions.

Give me a POV that differs and sway me. That's all I ask.

I've been swayed on "hunting the wind". I was wrong.

I've been swayed on shot selection (effective range). I was wrong.

I've been swayed on bow selection (for intended purpose purchased for). I was wrong.

This list is long;)

Now forget about ME and respond to Matt/PA's post.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Thanks now I have coffee all over my keyboard.

RE: Even if you did......
 

lol. No.

RE: Even if you did......
 

RE: Even if you did......
 

Guess my learning curve was a little slow Bobco.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Jeff you might have made a few rookie mistakes,I think over the years all of us have, but having said that ,
Nobody can floss a cats teeth any better ,you the man.

RE: Even if you did......
 

LOl, Bob.....

RE: Even if you did......
 

And Jeff quite bluntly (99% of us give you mass props for what you've done, regardless of years doing it) You take a lot of deer and in the past 2 years you have taken a Buck near the top endof your gene pool. Many have said that that's the accomplishment we all strive for.

The only one who needs constant reassurance or qualifying statements is you. No one questions your ability and we understand you hunt in an area where many P&Y's are not running around.

You are my Friend, thats not gonna change if you get skunked for the next 10 years and we're not gonna be better friends if you shoot a 170 Class Buck (Although I'll be down sooner ;))

You're a heck of a nice guy, giving in somany ways...You don't judge others on the bucks they choose to shoot..just as most of us don't judge each other on those grounds. Yes, this is a hunting site and many good bucks are killed..but it's also a community where some life-long friendships are formed.

Thats why most of us are here, for the comaradarie, the friendships, a way to pass the mundane days when we are at work or at home and want to talk about what we are passionate about. You have nothing to defend and nothing to prove..You've made it.

We know you're not in this "debate thing"alone, heck anyone of us can identify the key players. But you are the common denominator in most instances.

Your a Man, a Loyal Husband, a Father, a Friend, a Businesssman.....who is a Hunter.

Which Quality would you best like to be judged by? Cuz I learned all of these thingsthrough a "Hunting Board"!


Happy Easter all...

RE: Even if you did......
 

To a certain point….

Granted the most important factor is certainly to have mature deer on the property you’ll be hunting… But beyond that - I think that to assume that every hunter hunting the same ground will have the same results is absolutely not true…

There are so many other factors to consider such as, stand placement, knowing when to hunt what stand when, various hunting tactics/strategies, and just pure instinct & determination (which I think is often under rated). Just like in sports, one person may spend 4 hours a day practicing to become a better player basketball player, but they may never be better than the kid next door that practices 2 hours a day…. To a point, I think that applies to hunting. I know guys who hunt and hunt and hunt, and I know they are on good farms, they just don’t make good ‘hunting decisions’ and consequently they just don’t have the ‘luck’ that I believe other hunters would have hunting those same areas…

RE: Even if you did......
 

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass, you sure do argue a lot.;)

Differing point of view. You got it. I started my hunting career in SW PA and could pretty much pick a spot to hunt and expect to see deer in a reasonable amount of time if they were there. I moved to Central PA for college and again hunted public land and could put myself on deer.

Then I moved to Florida. I lived there 5 years and hunted that state's public land and on piece of private (for 2 days)arguably 3 of those 5 years. I shot zero deer. I know there were deer there, but I got none of them. During that time I hunted in NJ twice for one week each time and collected 6 deer during those 2 weeks. I also hunted a farm in GA during that time and was on deer within 3 hours of scouting.

I moved back to PA and again back on deer pretty much wherever I hunt.

Given my track record would yousay it is fair to conclude that there was something about hunting the sawgrass and swamps of Florida that I had trouble grasping and putting together how to get it done down there? I will admit that limitations prevented me from hunting but a handful of times while down there, but anywhere else if I put in the same time and effort inI was on deer. Hence, hunting different environments=different challenges.

RE: Even if you did......
 

LOL. :D

RE: Even if you did......
 

Bry....the only thing I've been saying is....I think it's ludicrous to think that anyone else would have DISsimilar results than you.

RE: Even if you did......
 

GR8....I appreciate the kind words.....

I look at it this way....

If someone said to me....the key to killing a lot of deer....is hunting where a lot of deer are.....I wouldn't feel threatened in the least by that proclamation. It's the truth.;)

Why is different when we interject a different scenario? I don't have anything to prove to anyone. I don't think this is that hard. I make no claims of anything other than "average".

And I, too, wish all a wonderful holiday.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Experience, experience, experience. It's what makes anyone good at anything. I really don't think everyone can expect to tag a P&Y calss deer every season. (No matter whose property you are on) If you know Mature deer, and you hunt where they are, maybe. Maybe not. Everyone will eat a tag at some point. Some, more than others. I have yet to kill a mature deer with a bow. Because I have not hunted where they live? No. Because they are smarter than an immature deer/hunter? Yes. You won't just pick up the hottest, smartest bikini on the beach just because she is there and you have been thereathousand times.( I challenge those who think they can.)

LT

RE: Even if you did......
 

GMATT - so are you saying that two different hunters, hunting the same property, will always have the same results?

RE: Even if you did......
 

No. I'm saying two SIMILAR hunters......hunting the same property.....will quite likely have the same results.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I don't think it is ludicrous to think that. In fact, I'd be willing to be there are guys on this board that could go down to Florida and hit those swamps and have a deer within a week. I've also hunted with guys that look at spots that I hunt like they were on Mars, and these guys aren't dumb.

I see what you are saying about the average HNIer being more adept than average joe weekend hunter, and I agree. On the other hand, some guys just can't catch on in a new spot. It is just very difficult for them. You make it a different type of habitat and that difficulty grows quite a bit. Not for all guys, but some, and I'd bet some on here too.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Yes and no.

Depends on who the hunter is and on what sort of property they're being put on.

If Jeff were to hunt Troy's (Shed33) woods out here in Idaho, I doubt he would have as much success as he has had so far on the property back home. The terrain differs greatly. The size of the woods being hunted is vastly different. The deer are more spread out out here on the public land than they are in Jeff's woods.

Give him several years and his success would likely increase.

If the concentration of deer is high, as it is in Jeff's woods, I think a lot of hunters would have similar success. Put someone who is used to high numbers of deer on a small parcel of land onto a large parcel of land where the deer are less concentrated and I think that hunter may have a difficult time tagging out on a mature animal.

[Jeff, I only use you as an example and am in no way trying to take away from the success you've had recently. ;)]

RE: Even if you did......
 

Dan I don't disagree with anything you said. I go back, again, to the EQUAL learning curve statement I made.

Yes. I agree with all. Anyone coming to hunt where I do would likely be successful. The numbers alone make that a slam-dunk. But....couldn't we (I ASK) use this same analogy and apply it to people's woods that have high densities (relatively speaking) of P&Y caliber animals?

Would that person coming here know all the right place and nuances immediately? Not likely. Nor would anyone going into a big buck target rich environment (again,.....relatively speaking) be a shoo-in. I concede that....and have all along.

But given the same learning curve.....I think we're in some awesome whitetail hunting company on this forum.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I suppose I can agree with that. (I didn't read past the initial question before making my reply. These 10+ page threads lately are driving me nuts. LOL)

RE: Even if you did......
 

Jeff, if you were given two years to go out and hunt and scout and learn Troy's woods I still doubt you would be similar in results to Troy. That's not a knock against you, I wouldn't have similar results either. Those woods are vastly different than what we hunt and Troy is an exceptional woodsman in that environment. We aren't all equals and it is more than just location that determines our successes.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I bet GregH could go hunt GMMAT's area for one season and kill one of the best bucks there. (During that season)[:-]

RE: Even if you did......
 

Equal learning curve? If I already know math and you don't wouldn't I be way ahead? Regardless of our equal learning curve.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Hey Jim that is my job Cheers!

RE: Even if you did......
 

I really wish it didn't have to be made like GMMAT vs. everyone. I don't and didn'tdo that. I haven't once brought my situation vs. someone else's into this. In fact...when i referenced it right off the bat....I noted the likely EASE someone from outside would have, here.

And I also imagine troy's learning curve is greater than 2 years.....which is the entire premise of my statements.

RE: Even if you did......
 

If you were to say if two guys equal experience(years/hours ofhunting ) with an equal learning curve were put in new placeneither had hunted, I think you would see basically the same ersults.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I can tell you one thing: Learning to hunt a new type of habitat isn't easy. Lots of your ownhabits and preconceived notions can get in your way. Ya see, different people have different approaches to a new game - and a lot of their prospective success (learning curve) will hinge directly on their ability to accept the ways that the rules have changed, and embrace it... Very subjective.

I hunt4 different areas: SW PA farm land (landowner co-op), SW PA Laurel Highlands (public), NW PA hardwoods/clearcuts (national forest)and OH coal strips (public) - and each of those respective areas require a very different approach. Obviously, the generic knowledge is always the same - but the application can vary dramatically.

For example: If I moved to the Dakotas and started hunting with Tim (TJF) - where there isn't a tree in sight - I'd be totally hosed. Clueless. I mean, I know that I'd have to use the sloughs and key in on the feed patterns, but that probably isn't enough to consistently put me on deer. Same with Pottenger in Idaho - that's a whole new brand of hunting.

If you throw 10 "good hunters" into those two situations, you're bound to see some discrepancies in the results. There will be guys who have trouble getting on deer altogether, while other guys might see results a little more quickly. It's not one-size-fits-all.

It's all about having amnesia, forgetting the rules from home, and filling in the blank slate. Hell, you might not even LIKE somebody else's brand of hunting.

Deer hunting comes in all shapes and sizes. I'll admit that I wouldn't know the first thing about hunting deer in a Florida swamp or in a scrub brushy SW Texas lease. Some people have tactics that are well-adapted for certain "kinds" of hunting. Other people will have trouble. Just the way it goes...

RE: Even if you did......
 

I think the point that Jeff is trying to make, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this...

If you took me and told me to hunt Jeff's woods for two seasons...

And took Jeff and told him to hunt my woods for two seasons...

Thechances of our both having similar results is going to be close, all things considered.

RE: Even if you did......
 

fair enough

I would agree that two hunters with similar experiece, skills, etc. could also have very similar results on the same property....

RE: Even if you did......
 

It could go either way in my opinion. Some people have a nack for big bucks. I feel like anyone who has a clue about deer could get on deer if they frequent a certain propery quickly. Getting a good buck is a different story. I allow one friend to hunt one of my properties with me. I have known him for years and until he started hunting my property 5 years ago, his largest buck was about a 100 inch 8 point. He started hunting my property with me, (we both use the same stands, he always gives me first pick of stand) and he consistantly shoots more and bigger bucks than i do. He just has the "luck", or knowledge to be in the right stand at the right time. Since he has hunted his property, he has shot his 7 largest bucks with the last buck being a 124" 8 point. When we hunt different properties i usually out produce him. I dont understand it, but its the way it is.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Fine, Charlie. I'll buy that. Now we probably just disagree on how tough this (hunting) is. I'm hunting new ground this year. I may bite off a big ol slice of humble pie. It wouldn't be my first piece.

Here's a thought that might bolster YOUR argument.

Are there those who have a certain "flair" for discerning and dissecting new gorunds?

Conceded.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Yes, but not the same results.

RE: Even if you did......
 

I agree with this 100%. I would say most hunters that frequent this board regularily are a different breed. There are lots of new guys and some really old guys(no offense, I just mean been here a long time). I don't have the highest post count but I know the regulars I see on here are a very dedicated/determined bunch. We live this stuff. And I would enjoy hunting I'm sure with most of you and feel very confident that most of you could hunt "my" woods successfully. I may not always agree with GMMAT but I do thinkthat often he isjust misunderstood or misinterpreted, for whatever reasons.

Edited to say maybe not the same results but probaly very similiar success.

RE: Even if you did......
 

Jeff, that was what I was driving at and just sucked at delivering.

I wasn't trying to make it you vs. the world (you know I wouldn't do that) you were just used as the example since I was conversing directly with you.

For what it's worth, I think that you and I could move out to Troy's and spend 20 years out there combining our experience and exile Troy to a remote island during that time and he'd still come back and whoop us. And I don't consider you or I a slouch at this game.;)

RE: Even if you did......
 

Seriously, are we arguing semantics at this point?

Give me a break, you're just looking for crap to argue about now.

I'm out. Have fun with this one, guys. :eek:

RE: Even if you did......
 

There is no way I could walk out to Idaho with Shed33(without his help) and be successful.
If you check my spots in KY they are away from the hills, and that is for a very good reason. I do not understand how a deer moves on them. Huntingson and I walked two sides of a ridge, one looked great, one did not. I don't understand why that is in KY yet.

I set stands all over MI & OHfor friends and they all shot deer out of them. I am confident in setting stands in MI and Ohio with similar terrain. When the terrain changes, I am smart enough to know, I don't really know until I have hunted it a few years.

Without TFOX help in KY I would still be looking in the wrong location;)