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Bowtech questions

Old 03-12-2008, 02:41 PM
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What's the average hourly rate for lawyers?
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:04 PM
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Is this a future Jerry Sienfeld episode.The best part is it doesn't have commercials.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:40 PM
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I skipped thru a lot, but its basic economics.

I don't care if it costs $3 to make thier bows, if the demand for them is great enough for them to sell them at $700, then that's the price. Why would they sell them for less? Yea there comes a point where the price keeps the total numbers from being bought, but then you just adjust your price.

From the companies standpoint the bad area is when a product costs a TON to make, but for some reason the demand isn't hi enough to charge a premium price. Then they go bye bye.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:50 PM
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Iwould think most of the corporate staff'ers on this site are not privy to the information you seek
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:51 PM
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Fran's argument is sound and it is a good discussion whether you like it or not. Granted he positioned the argument in a way to intentionally stir the pot and poke the Bowtech hornet's nest, but it's still a solid argument.

Solid argument for what? What does he want? Full disclosure??......from a privately held company? Are you KIDDING? What right does anyone have to know this?What if you had to give the price of everything you ever bought to the potential consumer when you sold it?

I guess when you guys play poker and fold......you also think it's your right to see what your opponent was holding.
You're missing the point. The disclosure of information is a means to an end. It is a way to see if a company is raking its distributors, and customers over the coals, or if they are making an honest buck. There are many companies that do this. Do you think a Coach bag is worth $600? Nope, but they charge that and more. He wants to know if you are paying for a name on a limb.


Jeff, you're getting way too wrapped up in the Bowtech part of this discussion. Mobow, and even Fran have used other companies as part of this argument to make the point, and I understand what they are saying.

No offense, BRY....but look at the name of the thread.
None taken, I concede that he picked Bowtech as his engine by which to build steam behind his argument. It's an argument much deeper than just Bowtech. He wants a fair deal and is willing to ask questions to get it. In this case Bowtech waswhere the questions started, but we've moved on from that (at least most of us have). You have no dog in this fight, so why are you so fired up that he picked Bowtech to start making his point with? Unless you just realized you overpaid for your bow and now aren't happy about it.

I know I overpaid for my bow, but I accept it and because I am loyal to my shop I save money on other items. I'm still not real happy about how much the bow manufacturer requires my dealer to charge, but I know his profit margin on it is razor thin as well.

I just think it's sickening that everyone is so OK with this phenomenon. I read an excerpt from Lee Iacocca on how he is amazed that this country isn't up in arms about the fleecing consumers go through and that previous generations would never have stood for it. Well quick isn't standing for it. I don't either. I take my deals where I can get them and save every penny where I can. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but if you don't try, you just get burned.

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Old 03-12-2008, 08:14 PM
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Quoting quicksilver:

"I got a sweetheart deal on my I.M. - $520 with a dozen arrows.

I'll always say that the '05 Ally was the best bowhunting bow ever built."

Apparently you’re willing to sacrifice top quality in favor of price. Were you told what kind of a deal was worked out, particularly any royalties paid,re: the collaboration on your bow?

"Put it this way: If this discussion leads to a price reduction of $1, and Bowtech sells 100,000 bows - I will have saved the American public $100,000.00."

Do you expect this will put you in some position of merit? What percentage of this amount will you expect as royalty? What were all costs associated with your discussion here?

"Bowtech/Hoyt/Mathews aren't dictating the terms of the sales of sellers of "used" bows. That's why they usually go about half price."

So do cars and most other items. Actually it’s called depreciation.

"Nag. Call. Ask questions. Be a pain in somebody's ass. You'll get a fair deal."

This usually does very little to “get a fair deal”. It generally gets you no more than a reputation.

"What about asking questions to make sure the price is commensurate with the cost?"

You fail to ask ALL the pertinent questions. R&D, marketing, advertising, salaries and benefits, shipping, packaging, building overhead, out-sourcing costs etc………..getting the picture? What it costs anyone to produce a product is their business alone. If you feel you're not getting your money's worth, don't buy it.

"Query: If you're in the building business, would it be kosher for you to call all the other builders in the area and say "Hey, whaddya say we all bump the prices of our buildings up by 50%? That way, we'll have the market cornered. Nobody is allowed to charge less than $X, and we'll have our vendors jack up the prices on anyone who tries to undercut us."

Of course this would violate anti-trust law. It’s also a very weak point in your argument.

"How about cutting the crap with the protected dealer areas and price fixing?"

There are reasons for this you obviously don’t understand. Prices are not fixed, BTW. There are rules put in place to prevent unscrupulous dealers from cutting other’s throats. And your “deal” is an example of the need for some regulation, should said company wish to keepgood dealers. Some companies have even been known to sell factory direct, cutting out the dealers already in place completely.

"Once you start hiding information, tampering with pricing, and playing games with geographic dealerships......"

Who is doing this………that you can show absolute proof of? What information is being hidden that is required, by law, be made available to the general public?

"I didn't say that anyone colluded on anything. I just said that it approaches collusion when you start protecting dealerships by setting geographic boundaries, refusing to respond to inquiries regarding overhead and setting factory-madated minimum pricing. That's not slander, that's an opinion."

That’s not an opinion. That’s a deluded joke. Others asked. I will, too. What was the manufacturer'scost of all products you bought last year? Didn't they tell you?

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Old 03-12-2008, 08:45 PM
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Phil - the "quality" between my Iron Mace and the Allegiance isn't even comparable. I was just trying to be nice and throw you guys a bone. LOL And I'm pretty sure what I paid is just about what the dealer paid... So High Country isn't getting rich off of this guy. I'm just wondering how I managed to get a 6061-T6 riser, binary-cam bow, with Barnsdale custom aftermarket limbs and a custom string - for just over $500. And bowtech is hawking the SAME bow, with cheaper limbs and a cheaper string for $700+? Something stinks.

It's not just me. I'm not the only one who sees this, so you're fighting an uphill battle. Be advised.

Let the record show thatI have unequivocally showedplenty ofproof ofmanipulating the market.It's a widely-known fact thatbow manufacturersprotect geographic dealership areas and set price floors. In addition, they create the illusion of limited "supply" by lagging behind on production.

You say it's "to protect their dealers." I don't agree with that, but... here again... that's my opinion, and you don't agree with it. You're being bribed with free bows, so why would you agree? You, my friend, have what we like to call "a conflict of interest."

Shady as a shade tree.

There's a reason that the onlypublicly-traded bow company also sells the lowest-cost bows (Escalade Sports)- DISCLOSURE.

Am I looking for a feather in my hat? Nope. There is no reward for being a people's champion. All I know is that my inbox is full of reasons why I have no fear about calling people to the carpet. You can sit here and run me to the pits of hell, and it's only gonna make you look that much worse.

Put it this way: How does it make you feel when you see on the news that Exxon-Mobil recorded RECORD PROFITS in 2007?

Whatev bro. I'm done with this conversation. I'm obviously not the only guy who shares these opinions, so it's prettyclear that I'm not totally coming out of left field here.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:55 PM
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ORIGINAL: quiksilver

And I'm pretty sure what I paid is just about what the dealer paid... So High Country isn't getting rich off of this guy.
Hate to burst any bubbles, but HCA made the same on your bow as any other. If you got it at dealer cost, only money you saved is what some dealer somewhere would have made....HCA still ripped you a new one.

I agree bows are overpriced, so what, all of them are. Its not likeany onebow company is alone here. If someone got a Hoyt/Bowtech/Mathews at dealer cost for around 500 (hypothetical) just as you did your HCA, is it fair for them to say "How in the world can HCA jusitfy $699 for the Iron Mace?"

You got a deal, doesnt make the bow any less of a ripoff, looking at what the company makes. The only thing you accomplished by this was to cut out some dealers profits....maybe even leading to yet another bow shop closing.[&o]exageration used.

I bought a biscuit at hardees this morning, Never even asked them how much they paid for the egg, sausage patty, slice of cheese, or butter milk biscuit....i bought it for what they charged me, and it was damn good. Similar situation with my Hoyt. Vectrixis an amazing bow to me, at a price just as low or lower than the flagship bow of the other 2 major companies.

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Old 03-12-2008, 09:03 PM
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Yes Fran, because you are the "king" for saving everybody money! You are the man! Now, question, since you are so concerned with prices, how much do those High Country arrows cost you? $100 a dozen? $120 a dozen? Thats the price I noticed them selling for on E-Bay. Now, I wonder just how much it costs HC to make a single arrow? I wonder if their cost per arrow justifies the $10 per arrow price for the consumer? Maybe I should e-mail them and ask for every detail, while I am at it, I will ask them to give me all the details on the cost breakdown for their company, and hell, while I am at it why don't I ask for every employee of HC's name, address, and SS number. If they don't give me the info I want then I will drag their name through the mud!

You came on here asking questions that you knew you would not get the answers to simply so you could try to drag BowTech's name through the mud!

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Old 03-12-2008, 09:04 PM
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ORIGINAL: quiksilver

And I'm pretty sure what I paid is just about what the dealer paid... So High Country isn't getting rich off of this guy.
Hate to burst any bubbles, but HCA made the same on your bow as any other. If you got it at dealer cost, only money you saved is what some dealer somewhere would have made....HCA still ripped you a new one.
QS,is any of this making any sense, yet?
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