quiksilver

Facts:
[ul][*]There are bow manufacturers out there right now actively protecting their overhead costs with their lives, knowing full well that if said information ever leaked to the consumer, their profitability would be compromised.[*]There are bow manufacturers out there right now actively protecting certain geographic boundaries and controlling supply/demand in those boundaries by limiting the number of salespersons therein and/or lagging behind on production to keep the illusion of low supply and high demand.[*]There are bow manufacturers out there right now disclaiming second-hand and internet-sale bows from their warranties to protect their profit margins[*]There are bow manufacturers out there right now actively setting price floors and dictating their pricing - instead of letting it establish itself in a true, capitalist market. [/ul]
This isn't capitalism. It's greed. It's abusive behavior directed toward the consumer. Like I said before - if you like paying extra, kudos to you.I say, let the market set itself. Free market capitalism is the American way. I just wish these manufacturers would actually give it a try.

Nah, that might result in somebody going home with an understuffed wallet.

For what it's worth, I commend you for fighting the good fight on your friends' behalf here. And as far as I'm concerned, they should have your staff shooter paperwork already filled out and in the mail. You've earned it.

GMMAT

Do you not agree that's fudging it, though? ALL those things cost somebody money.

Kinda like taking your oil, filter and plugs into the Jiffy-Lube to change your own oil. Heck....all it cost was the price of the parts, .......right?

GMMAT

Sure it is.

How does it NOT? If you don't like the prices or the company's practices.....don't buy their product(s). Simple, really.

Hear! Hear! Common Ground!

I thought we'd both got by the petty stuff and were talking about Exxon and grocery stores.....hell even aluminum arrows. This has NOTHING (the argument) to do with any specific company.......less your loathing of said.

mobow

Fran, do you think those companies do all of those things out of fear? What I mean is, they are afraid that if they don't force people to buy their products, we won't? I dunno, just a thought I had. And, since monopolizing isn't allowed they set up territorial boundaries and do all of the other things you mentioned as a legalized monopoly on a territory?

Again, I don't know, it was just a thought I had to just toss out there.

Bols

Fran....just out of curiousity.

In your opinion,what isan acceptableamount ofprofit a bow manufacturer should make off a bow when selling to their dealers?

I totally understand your stance on this discussion....I also understand far to many people are willing to pay whatever the dealer throws at them for a final "grand" total. Cause we all know, that is usually what a bow cost these days.

GMMAT

Territorial rights.........cost restrictions....blah, blah, blah.....don't mean a DAMNED thing.....if there isn't a demand for your product. Let the demand diminish.....and you may see these practices rescinded.

Build a product that is of a high quality andsell it at a price that is palatable to a large base of consumers.....and you've built yourself a capitalistic model.

The consumer always has the ultimate right of refusal. He can walk away.

GR8atta2d

Well Jeff...come on your a business man...if BawannaJim quoted you a job..don't you think his price includes some mark-up for equipment and electricity..etc. Or should he charge you for a whole new mill? Hence the conversion cost I noted.

GMMAT

Fair enough, Bob....but your conversion cost is for raw materials????? What about production? Distribution? Etc...etc...etc...

You mentioned you thought you'd be up there (potentially) with the "other" arrow mfr's. If I read that correctly.

BUT....for the sake of argument.....let's say YOU took a chance and built them out of a new type of alloy. It cut your cost in 1/2. You are now (in reality) able to undercut the major arrow mfr's prices by $24 a dozen.

According to Quik......you should have to disclose this....and you're not supposed to rake consumers over the coals and accpet this extra windfall. You should disclose all of your trade secrets and costs of operation.

Sounds like..........well....I know what it sounds like. HEre's a hint.....name it the "Robin Hood Arrow Company"

pdq 5oh

[/ul]
You keep falling back on these assumptions...........as if THEY ARE facts. Facts need support. Where is yours? The concepts of protected area and MAP pricing easily elude you. Your use of the word "capitalist" goes directly against your left wing mentality.

QS: "Bold proclaimations such as these are what makes the King the King. The King is not afraid to call a spade a spade. It's why he commands the respect of his peers."

Do you really believe this (rhetorical [&:])?

A bit about your "bribed by bows" comment which I feel is born of ignorance, more than anything else.I was shooting aBowTech Mighty Mitein 2001. I bought a few more of their bowsbefore the Corporate Advisory Staff was created in 2002.When I was offered a position, I was honored to say yes. If you knew the people that run BowTech, you'd see a different picture than whatyou assume it to be. Their business practices are no different than any well run for profit business. BowTech management make a living, as well as providing an avenue for over 400 (hope that's right) people to do the same. In the end, consumers get top quality bows, designed and built by top quality people.

BTW, nice backpedal on the Allegiance, best hunting bow ever built. Classic move when hoping to regain lost ground. It never works with anyone..................but other backpedalers.

As you've said you would but haven't, I won't be responding further.

GR8atta2d

Ok so as not to distract form the topic at hand I'm dropping this scenerio. My only question was the liabilty.

Jeff I'm in the AluminumExtrusion Industry..I'm coverring all the production costs. For the basis of the argument the unknowns are liability and associated insurance. Consider it a web based business with shipping being actual cost and advertising by word of mouth.

I've been in extruders that run primarily arrows..I've run material for risers for one of the big 3and quoted rests, that you use on YOUR bow.

Say your edit..GMMAT.
Guess what ..that Aircraft Grade Aluminum Alloy costs virtually the same as the aluminum surrounding your shower enclosure. Theres no huge savings to be had there.